There's a lot more bass in a 6.5" driver than most of you think

noble100

I don’t like organ, so forget 20hz (I went for that like a nut when younger).

I love Jazz, the low instruments are piano say 30hz, double bass say 40hz, many instruments no lower than 60hz. I know where each musician, each bass player is standing, where the trombone is, ...

the thing about Bass is, despite all the proven physics, listening to my pair of 37 lb 15" woofers each with magnets 7" thick,

they can control the bass as much as make it.

And, better controlled 40hz gives better controlled overtones 80, 160, 320, ... (overones is why analog sounds more involving than digital IMO)

Bass IS or, CAN BE directional.

this is a sweet listen, I just got a fresh copy for Christmas).

https://www.amazon.com/Double-Bass-180-NIELS-HENNING-PEDERSEN/dp/B005CJQR8S/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=double+bass+pedersen&qid=1579746066&s=electronics&sr=8-1

Keeping bass, or as another member here clarified, the bass overtones directional is why I do not like ports. If ports, front facing.

Now lets get to producing bass without roll off, keeping it at proper volume to adjacent, other instruments. This is where smaller woofers cannot perform.

Sooooo, if getting some decent bass, IN YOUR ROOM, from 6", then a pair of DIRECTIONAL subs, located adjacent to the mains, Not too big (that’s why I mentioned i.e. 10"), can extend a STEREO experience to relatively equal lower bass!!!!

A single, or too large pair of subs, poorly located because too big, will lose the potential for directionallity, and lose the directionality the overtones of those fundamentals provide.

You are hearing 40hz at proper level to other instruments, by itself perhaps not directional, but it’s 80 and 160 and .... tell your mind where that 40 is originating! Especially if the fundamental 40 is tightly controlled, thus big magnet, servo, ...

Bass IS or, CAN BE directional.

*Hmmm* It’s very ’circumstantial’....and driven by frequency and the space it’s in.

"Now that I’ve got your attention..." *G*....

’Directional bass’, or the perception of it being such, is ’normal’ (IMHO....oh, forget that...IM not so HO....) for those used to ’direct radiating speakers; who then add ’sub(s)’ for ’punch’ and/or to fill in what they know should ’be there’ in ’that music’ (genre driven...bass guitar, drums...those sort of instruments).

As an ’omni’ sort of guy, who lives with ’sound in the round’ (so to shriek)....who also has dipoles (AMT drivers and a pair of Maggie’s) along with ’direct radiators’ for ’reference’s sake’....

...and a single sub. Small...6ish", ported, self-powered.

Frequency, as it lowers, undergoes a ’phase change’ of sorts. It becomes less directional and begins to ’omni’.

It’s beginning to respond to the physics of sound waves, and how they behave. Let me illustrate with a analogy, based in the physical properties of air...which acts like water.

They are the same thing, basically. You’re just able to walk around in one.*G* You ARE a ’fish out of water’....in the midst of a ’phase change’.

Think of sound’s frequency in terms of ’speed’; higher=faster, low=slower.
Speed zips past one in a given direction, bounces off of anything in it’s path, and dissipates. Slower, it tends to create vortices, swirling like the air over a stalling wing, ’losing it’s way’....and hangs around, due to the length of the waveform.

Now...consider this...

Listening to your equipment...(and I could care less what it is, how sophisticated it is or isn’t)....you are IN an enclosure. Being driven by units within their enclosure....

Which does indicate that ’the room’, in many ways, is just as (if not more) important to what you hear and how it’s perceived.

’Upper bass’ can seem ’more directional’ than ’Lower bass’ because, due to waveform, it is... and is effected by the space it’s in.

An example:
Ever notice, when approaching a venue in which the band is already playing...that you notice the low bass notes before anything else?

You go from ’omni’ to ’direct’. (Then you buy a drink, and stop paying attention. *L* I do it, too....) ;)

(I Know this is going to start ’something’, but I just had to go there...*L*)

@erik_squires ....it didn’t register in my small, swelled ’n itchy brain, But....*G*

I Finally noticed that not only that the SNR-1’s have a ribbon tweeter....but "...using a pair of parametric notch filters...." was noted by yers unruly.

Not surprised that those speakers can be ’tweaked’ to ’go flat’.

My octave ’stand alone’ eq’s can’t do that....but the xover and the ’puter’s eq program can...;)  Both have parametric functions....

One of these days I ought to try to get an acceptable noise out of a Coke can....*L* I have enough eq at hand and on demand, I could probably excite a pineapple....*smirk*

(Sounds like one ’ell of a ’bar bet’.....)

AMTs, not true ribbons.

Note though that they are cuts, not boosts. The point of the post was the speaker + room gain creates a lot more bass than we think. Also, don't discount the bass traps I have. :) It would be a much more complicated picture otherwise.

Best,
E

...and best back to you, Eric. *S*  And, yes, I noted the cut vs. boost detail...it's all in how the parametric is set.  This I'm confident you know of this....;)

I've got an old SAE '2 band' (high & low) 2 channel set up in my shop area to tame my 'low rent' arrays into a 'reasonable' affair.  Beats trying to massage the receiver's tone controls to be acceptable. *G*

I will concur...an AMT is not a true ribbon, but they are less finicky and durable.  That, and they can go down to 500 hz before loosing 'credence' at least to my ears...

I don't discount your traps, oh no.  My current space makes such impractical; this Will change in the short future.  At that juncture, I shall respond in my typical 'knee of jerk' Xsperimental fashion. *G*

I have 'something' I want to try....;)   My take on 'nothing ventured, blame yourself' department. 

That, and a spouse that absolutely refuses to live in a 'studio'...so I have to be...'artful' about it...;)   Blobs (or even GIK panels) 'don't fly' well about her...(she's quite aware of 'hi-fi devious tricks' from living with me for wayyy long time...).

Subtlety in the Long Game.  And it works best if not permanent, so one can beat a hasty retreat....;)  We both (she & I) have our reasons.....