confused and don't know what to do


We would like to buy a nice audio system and also have this double as a surround sound but listening to music is the priority. We have listened to many speakers but have settled on the B&W 804's. Now the challenge is to select a receiver and all the other accompaniments we require. We have a little challenge in that our home is a condo and the outside wall is all glass. The space is combined kitchen, living room, and dining room all open with hardwood floors and hard tile on the walls of the kitchen and a lot of granite counter tops. It seems that every where we go, the recommendations are different depending on what the store is selling and of course, the sales people would like us to buy the most expensive. What would give great sound without going crazy. We are thinking about 2 tribe sub woofers and space is limited and an in wall center B&W speaker but we don't know what we are doing and don't want to throw our money away. Help! Too many choices and we don't have enough knowledge. Thank you so much.
raw33
No Big Greg you were wondering why there was a simple gramatical error.

As per do’s and don’ts, everyone has an idea of what do’s and don’t should and shouldn’t be.

Again, people are free to read or not read our posts in the case of Rbach most of his 66 posts are complaining about us, is that contributing to the discussions, why aren’t you calling him out for his "bad" behavior.

We are very transparent, we list in our discussions why we like and endorse or don’t endorse a certain product, we show our biases, and let people know we are dealers for that brand.

Obviously we write on forums to help get our name out there, and perhaps gain a few new customers welcome to the new reality of the internet. However people are free to purchase from whom they feel can assist them the best.

We would also let you know out of the hundreds of discussions we have had with people not everyone is magically going to become our clients, we have had discussion with people in Canada and South Africa as well as other countries we are not seling those people anything.

The entire point of a forum is to exchange ideas, our first post was exactly what the OP should do and possibly look at in their quest.

Many of our posts are not done to appear bragadocious but to let people know why we know what we know and our experience.

When we list brands it is to make a point about the kind of store and our product experience. If you store sells only Denon receivers how can you make an argument that another brand may or may not better if you have zero experience with any other brand?

For example we have had on display: Anthem Statement, Anthem Statement D2V, Audio Control Maestro, Marantz, Primare, and now an NAD Master Series surround sound processors, does that not make us valuable in discussing if there is a sonic difference between these processors?

For Theater amplifiers we have used, Plinius, Audio Control, Hegel, Electrcomaniet, Primare, Chord,  Parasound, Cary Audio, to name a few that we have used over the years.

If Rbach was trying to make a point then he could have done it succinctly and do it one time or Rbach might have just stayed out of it and let a discussion unfold.

Each person here is a grown up and can see for themselves what each post can bring to the discussion.

As mentioned we have every right to post here, and considering we are professionals who have actually built hundreds of home theaters and setup thousands of music systems in 30 years means we are more than qualfied to talk and address the subject at hand.

In fact how many people on these boards have been trained to design these kinds of systems? Probably none unless you are talking to another professional or someone who has worked in a store or in the industry. Even people who have worked in stores may or may not be trained in Theater design. Now not everyone wants to build a dedicated Home Theater but there are CEDIA courses in it, we have studied with Toni Grimmini, Keith Yatess, and Russ Herschelman. Google these guys and you can see their experiences.  Many stores have personal that have never taken any courses.

Audio Advice posted a nice video about center channels, they never talked about rake angle which can help position the center channel correctly, which can be done with footers or by creating  a wedge, as many center channels tweeters may not be actually in line with the listener. They also didn't talk about measuring the main listeners ear height and setting up the center channel for the main listening chair. So there discussion although quite professonal was missing out on a lot of topics, such as what if my main loudspeakers center channel is too big or can't fit what else can I do? Or what if my main loudspeakers do not even offer a center channel? Or having a discussion on phantom cener channels. 

In the case of Millercarbon, he is entitled to his opinion, howerver the point being made is a professional is going to have a very different set of skills and experience vs a hobbist.

In over 30 years of professional design we have designed and built and retrofitted many Home Theaters and Media Rooms.

Personally I owned a Fosgate Pro Logic processor and was playing with Home Theater 30 years ago.

We agree with Millercarbon and many of his points our main listening room is highly tweeked up with Stein Harmonizers, Acoustic System Resonators, a Just Add Power Sorceer Quantum box, Furutech Cable Risers, Furutech outlets, Audio Magic power conditioners and Shakti Holographs to name some of the tweeks in our reference room.

Where we disagree is that having a center channel is crucial and having back loudspeakers are also something that is going to add a lot into the effect of creating a believable sound field which if done correctly will help immerse the listener in the action.

Sure if we dabble in webdesign, does that make us a "web designer?"
If you are a weekend Basketball player does that make you suitable for the NBA?  The point is our company listing experience and products and training is to establish professional credentials and why we can guide or assist others.

The reality is we can all learn from each other and explore and take in each others points of view.

Big Greg you could have chosen to talk about your feelings on the subject which is how to construct a music and theater setup, do you have one? That kind of discussion stays to the heart of the subject and doesn’t bring the topic off course don’t you think?

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
It doesn't matter to Dave Lalin how many people suggest that if he toned it down, his message might be more tolerable......he just doesn't get it. In fact it fuels him to write longer promotional posts listing more and more products that he carries.

"If Rbach was trying to make a point then he could have done it succinctly and do it one time or Rbach might have just stayed out of it and let a discussion unfold."

Dave, maybe you should take your own advice and promote and post less.  

BTW, I don't know why you insist on referring to me as 'him'. Women are audiophiles too.
First Rbach most people who post here are men so it is generally  assumed that most people here are so, sorry about that. 

In terms  of mannors and decorum, please have the courtsey to address us by Audio Troy which is our handle on the site, we don't have your legal name listed so we address you by your handle here if you would like to provide your actual legal name then we can address you by it as well. 

As per your  comments, if you actually read the above post everything is explained in great detail why and how we retort.

We mentioned our tweeks for no other reason than to prove a point that we believe in settiing up a system like Millercarbon does, we mentioned why we feel that his thinking of not requiring surround sound components is wrong for those who actually want to enjoy the full benefits of those components. 

Again we illustrated the difference between a trained person, vs an untrained person. via the example of Sound Advice missing the importance of rake angle as well as not measuring the height of the main listeners ear and then setting up the tweeter's angle and not just the height of the speaker.  Triad actually did this with the original In room Gold which actually had an adjustable tweeter which could be angled.

Again Rbach what is your point, you expect us to sit by and not reply to you when you attack us? Please look at it this way you may not like us or our posts we are assisting people all the time some of those people purchase from us many do not.

We handle these attacks the same way we provide back up information on how and why we feel the way we do, stop attacking us and see how much shorter the replies are.

Again back to topic what kind of system do you have? What are your experiences? Please post some pictures of your setup, what are your feelings on Music and Theater systems? What is the best Home Theater you have heard? Do you or any of your friends have a Home Theater or a fully conceived Music and Theater rig?

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
Post removed 
Audio Troy, sorry, I just barely skimmed your post.  You have way too much time on your hands!  No, I don't have an audio system or listen to music or watch movies.  I just play an enthusiast on the internet.