Higher End DACs

Let me address a few wrong facts mentioned here...
The first major streaming DAC was not Lumin, but it was the company they copied, Linn. Linn was the first high-end audio manufacturer to ditch CD players altogether and invest in the streaming DAC category. Lumin started their company by completely copying the Linn Klimax. Of course, they've moved on from there, with their own designs, they might sound even better than Linn's, but the fact remains that Linn is the original innovator, not Lumin.
Then, MQA. Fact is, MSB was one of the very first companies to implement MQA. Why? Because it's so damn easy for them. The whole DAC is programmable via software, and since MSB controls the whole stack (no OEM stuff there), all they had to do was write code (or incorporate MQA's) and deploy a new firmware upgrade. The new hardware for USB was required only because MQA requires it for the "A"uthentication part. 
The same thing happened with DSD, way back. DSD was literally implemented in a manner of days by MSB's engineers, and deployed (for free) via a simple firmware update. 
Other manufacturers, who rely on OEMs for their USB or Ethernet inputs, had to wait much longer to deploy these technologies, as they don't have effective control over their own product.
I truly think you should definitely give Vince @ MSB a call before you do anything.


cheers,
Alex

4425 at this price point it will of course come down to taste, features, philosophy and of course sonic palatte.

Mr. Harly has the enviable task of testing the latest and greatest in digital so it is only logical he will endorse or non endorse a particular front end which is new on the market which may upend the apple cart as there are new companies and products being introduced. 

Lumin, DCS, MSB, T+A, EMM Labs,  Esoteric are all fantastic companies with state of the art digital front ends, and of course it is possible to fall in love with one over the others. 

We have tested EMM, Esoteric, and have had DCS gear traded in, we keep on comming back to Lumin because it is so good for the price point. 

As we have mentioned in other posts the Lumin X1 is not going to be for everyone, if you want an analog volume control, or a headphone amp or digital inputs this piece will not be for that customer, for this reason we just brought in Bricasti to complement the Aqua, and other dacs we sell. 

You have to understand as a company we embrace a companies technology and engineering as one way to help codify the kinds of products and companies we want to work with. 

It also depends on the philosophical approach, some people like the idea of being able to upgrade their sound by adding an external box or two, in the case of an external clock many engineers feel that putting an external clock in a separate case away from the dac is not desirable. 

We are not saying that a multi box approach like DCS takes in their higher end pieces is wrong, it jus comes down do you want to take the space and extra power cords and cables to add additional boxes or upsamplers vs an all in one solution?

The reason we selected the T+A SD 3100 to be our reference was the overwelming nature of the piece it does everything well and offers a feature set as well as a sound quality and technlogical advancements that most other audio companies could only dream of.

Please show us one digital front end that:

Can be ordered with a world class preamp for almost no addiitonal cost.
Has a very good streamer built in.
Offers Blue Tooth, HDMI and multiple digital inputs.
Has an excellent native control app.
Has multiple filter setting to tune the sound.
Offers a completely separate DSD and PCM pathway.
Has a very good heaphone amplifier.
Natively decodes the worlds highest sampling frequencies.
Offers OTA upgrades.
Reasonable size and weight.

As per the OP the sound of the SD 3100 is smooth and natural it is not tubey sounding nor bright, just neutral with a hint of warmth and smoothness. 

One possible advantage may 

The fact that this dac can process sampling frequecies that are not even available means that the Dac can grow into higher sampling rates when they are available.

We do not have a computer based server fast enough yet to run HQ player to turn DSD 512 to DSD 1024 which one of the European reviewers was able to do so and basically rewrote the sound qulaity that that reviewer thought was possible in digital.

So we will be searching for a new server line that can offer this tantalizing prospect of being the best digital on the planet and yet still costing a fraction of a full MSB or DCS stack costs. 

This is an exciting time for high end digital.

We by no means mean to imply that the T+A will sound better than anyone elses product just that it is a unique product that does happen to sound amazing especially if you go the distance and use a very high end server that can handle the highest of frequencies.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor T+A dealers

It is fascinating the two styles these dealers have. One is informative, clears up misinformation and politely gives his recommendation. While the other dismisses brands he doesn't sell and continually promotes one's he does sell. Even the OP politely told this dealer the product doesn't have what he's looking for (MQA) and might not be the best match for his system.

4425 states: "audiotroy...i laud you as a very informed dealer. i really do. i also have no reason to question what you say. in the end the customer decides after learning and hearing the product. it is my hope that you don’t demean customers that don’t come to the same conclusion. it happens a lot but is a poor method of selling products."

Seems like there has been enough dealer input on this really interesting thread.

Emotion is the only key to success in audio. In 2016 I started to read a lot about how human emotion works regarding sound and music. It gave me new insights but I also did understand things a lot better. All the different aspects of sound can influence our emotions when we listen to music. You will find all the details and different aspects of the music on each recording.

So you want an audio system and also a source to be able to reveal and give you access to all these details and different aspects of the music. But the facts show and prove that most audio products and also sources are not even able to reveal all aspects of sound. This is based on the fact that they do not own these aspects/properties of sound. And what is missing can never even be revealed. It is even that simple.

In 2010 I decided to spend even more time and effort in the research of sound&vision. Most of that time I did spend on the research in audio. Because I am addicted to music since I was 6 years old. In 2015 I started to do research in all aspects which influence sound and stage negatively beside the acoustic. I already spend thousands of hours in the research of the acoustic.

I over 21 years of time I always had a lot of contact with different specialists in their particular field. In 2015 I started to focus on what electro-smog does to the stage and sound of an audio system. During these tests, I always had a lot of contact with a person who has a lot of experience in electro-smog. Later in 2015 I also started to do research in magnetism on sound and stage.

People have no idea how much you loose in dynamics, layers, and resolution due to the influence of electro-smog, high-frequent nose, and magnetism on sound and stage of an audio system. In 2016 I started to do research regarding high-frequency noise on sound and stage. Again I had contact with a person who is specialized in this particular part.

Diversity (layering) in sound is by far the most important aspect of sound due to the fact that it has the most influence on our emotions during listening to music. The harmonics of a recording are essential to be revealed to get access to the most important influence on our emotions. But also other aspects can influence our emotions. So you need a source to give you access to all aspects/properties of each recording.

We are Lumin dealer and also Sbooster dealer for about 4,5 years now. We love both brands a lot but in our world, they are standard by far not good enough to our demands and expectations. Due to working together with different specialists we brought digital audio to a much higher level most people don’t even know yet. We had the goal to bring digital audio to a much more realistic and emotional experience.

We judge all individual audio products on what we call: "DNA". First, we want to know which aspects of sound a product can reveal. And second, the way how the individual aspects of sound are being displayed. We need all the products independently to be able to reveal all aspects of sound. This also counts for all the individual parts we use for modifications.

We modify Lumin network players and even the Lumin L1 music server. We imply superior parts who are also a lot better in layering in sound. When we demo a standard Lumin network player or the Lumin L1 compared to our modified versions. You see the smiles and excitement on the faces of all our customers. The same counts for the differences between a standard Sbooster and our modified AudioFacts Sbooster.

All our insight and knowledge regarding the influence of electro-smog, high-frequency noise, and magnetism on sound and stage is also being used in all our modifications. And shows and proves how much more you can reveal out of a source. This will blow your mind and create a much more emotional and intense experience during listening to music.

A few months ago we started to sell the Silent Bonn N8 switch.

http://www.thunder-data.com/z5

A month ago we started to modify the Silent Bonn N8 as well. And when you hear the difference between the standard and modified one, you can not even imagine that it is the same switch. We also have a network specialist in our team. Together we can bring any network home situation to a much higher-end result. In detail, we can go further than any other company on this planet.

By adding a modified Sbooster to a modified Bonn switch you will experience a new level in digital audio. I will soon write a review of it. You can see all the photos of the modification as well. For us, audio is like a Formula 1 car. We improve products and create new levels over and over again.

Sound is so much more complex than anyone can even imagine. For digital audio, we had to do adapt a lot to reveal so many more details and layers of each recording. Extreme perfectionism is in my blood and DNA. Together it is our goal to bring more people to an emotional and intense experience each time they listen to their own system.

Music is emotion and when you want to experience all the emotion music possesses, you need a source to give you access to all the details and aspects of each recording. Now when we demo a modified Lumin X1 together with a modified Lumin L1 music server, modified Bonn switch and 2 modified Sboosters it exceeds all your thoughts about digital audio.

The thing I love most about audio is the fact that the most emotional and intense source always will be preferred and chosen. I am proud of what we achieved together. When you want people to use their audio system every single day, it needs to reveal all aspects of sound. This is why we work by Tru-Fi. What stands for True fidelity. And it is based on all the different aspects/properties of sound.

bo1972

Very exciting and interesting posts....Thanks...

It is the first times I read someone here that insist about "electro-smog" ( I will borrow your word if you give the right to me) with conviction and knowledge from experiments, what I had called in my thread, noise in the house electrical grid... My living experience is, at least 40% of the S.Q. ( Sound quality) comes from a cleaning of the house electrical grid...The other 30% comes from the passive treatment of the room with reflective and absorbent materials and active modifications of the acoustical space with also mechanical controls of vibrations-resonance...Only 30 % comes from the main electronical components for me, assuming an almost or relative equality or equivalence,a variation in quality instead of a transformation amongst all the products that are on the same rung; I assume 3 rungs scale price/ quality between products : low, mid, high...( These numbers are not science ,only metaphor to communicate my experience and experiments)

Then the most important upgrade of all, living with products somewhere in a rung of this scale, is the cleaning of the electrical house grid, after that, passive and active modifications of the acoustical space and resonance controls....The third upgrade in an audio system is the change of a main electronic component ( turntable or dac, amplifier, speakers) but this upgrade is generally the least powerful of the three, contrary to the majority opinions, especially if your change remains in the same rung of the scale.


In spite of this fact most people who talks upgrade speak about changing an electronic component , unbeknownst to them the powerful degradation induced by what you called the electro-smog in the electrical grid of house and room and in the electronic component also, all being linked in all including one audio system....


You create some new electronic component to clean this noise, Sbooster and Bonn N8, I use homemade low cost methods....I dont say that my cheap methods are equal in power to your research top of the line products, I only say that even with cheap homemade solutions I think the same exactly about what you call electro-smog....Most people like you said

People have no idea how much you loose in dynamics, layers, and resolution due to the influence of electro-smog, high-frequent nose, and magnetism on sound and stage of an audio system.

I am no scientist at all, only someone with no money that dreamed to create his own sound heaven....I make my dream comes true and want to communicate my enthusiasm to others and some solutions... My best to you ….