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Importance of phase and timing optimization when incorporating sub woofers ?

For incorporating a pair of sub woofers into a music system, how important is it to be able to optimize phase ( continuous adjustments and not just 0 or 180) and timing ( optimizing delay ) ? Reading on this subject, some say to get the best seamless integration, the two above factors are essential. REL is frequently mentioned as the most musical/fast/detailed sub woofers for music, however they only allow of 0 or 180 deg phase and no other room correction, as compared to Velodyne DD’s or JL Audio’s. I could utilize something like the JL Audio CR-1 crossover, but adding an additional piece of equipment into the audio chain wouldn’t be my first choice. On the other hand, the added benefit, might make the addition of a well made crossover a net plus ??? Regardless I plan on having my room/system measured to assist with incorporating what ever two subs I go with.
Thoughts from experienced users?
jim94025
erik_squires
16,399 posts
 
+1 nekoaudio

@snbeall - In an ideal world, you are right. I mean, DSP itself adds processing time, so even if you originally had subs at the same distance acoustically as your mains, just putting a processor in the bass path introduces 1-2 mSecs of delay (i’m guessing).

In practice though, I find that matching the phase and slopes correctly using the sub alone can be really really good sounding. This keeps your mains "pure" and your sub disappears.
wlutke
733 posts
 
I’ve never seen it mentioned but here’s a thought.  If you're in the phase doesn’t matter camp could you use a variable phase control to nudge your nodes around until they work for you?

nekoaudio's avatar
nekoaudio
489 posts
 
@snbeall the miniDSP SHD products allow you to adjust delay for individual channels, so you can adjust main speakers and subwoofers independently. You can use Room EQ Wizard to compute the exact delay value to use.

Trinnov products support this as well, and will perform the exact measurements for you.

Devialet's Expert Pro systems also support delaying the mains or subwoofer output by an exact amount, and Room EQ Wizard can also be used here to compute the delay value.
rooze's avatar
rooze
643 posts
 
I started a thread a while back with similar concerns, and opinions were all over the place, as it seems they are here.

Most opinions were against the notion that phase and time were important when setting up a sub, or multiple subs for 2-channel music.
All I can say is that I’ve had the opposite experience using subs with my Dunlavy speakers. I’m guessing this thread will morph into a discussion about using multiple (4) subs in a ‘swarm’ arrangement, as the panacea for most bass evils, and I accept that in principle the swarm should work well. But I haven’t had any success with it in my system and still prefer a single sub placed with attention to phase and time integration to multiple subs placed with the golden ratio principle.
 I wrote about this experience in more detail here https://audioresurgence.com/2020/02/subwoofer-swarm-with-aerial-sw-12s.html

Good luck OP!


guy-incognito's avatar
guy-incognito
169 posts
 
Is anyone else just paying attention at this point to see the interaction between erik_squires and millercarbon? It's like waiting for titans to do battle. 
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