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Seriously considering tube preamp…opinions?

Tube virgin, here. I am building a system and I'm trying to contain the preamp/amp cost to $3k or so. (I could go up a little.) 

I'm inclined not to dive into tubes all the way through, but get a solid state on the output end. (Open to suggestions; inclined toward PS Audio, Parasound.) I'm reading around about tube preamps and have talked with my local dealer, who sells Black Ice/Jolida and Prima Luna (PL). He used to carry Rogue but said they kept coming back for repairs. That's why he carries PL.

I'm asking these questions after having established (via reviews, comments) that Schiit gear is quite the value. Lately, I've been reading about Decware and other small tube makers. I'm very curious about buying direct, if possible, and a company that stands behind their products is crucial.

So, your opinions about tube integrated or *especially* tube preamps —

1. Who do you like? Consider I want to do pre/amp for a total of $3k if possible.

2. Do you think PL is worth all that money just for a preamp? I get the feeling they're high quality but a bit over-hyped. (No disrespect to the highly passionate Kevin Deal, but he's all over my search results.) And what would you think about $2k/$1k preamp-to-amp spending ratio?

3. Any sense of what happened to Jolida since the name change to "Black Ice"? I see there's a sordid story there but did the re-branding clear up the mess? Any experiences with the Black Ice company?

4. I know there are many Schiit fans out there; so my question would be -- did anyone consider Schiit for tube preamp and go another way? Or move beyond Schiit for any particular reason? It's hard not to just capitulate and do a Freya+ or Saga+ but why wouldn't one just go with Schiit?




128x128hilde45
decooney
2,139 posts
 
@tvad
Sourcing good tubes is definitely a consideration. They’re not as easy to find as they were just five years ago, and the adventurous pleasure of tube rolling can be an expensive crap shoot.

Frankly, it’s a good argument in favor of Pass Labs and First Watt Class A solid state.

tvad,
It appears you may be referring to vintage tubes I gather. That’s what i use, and... also some new tubes too with great success. By chance have you tried any of the latest version new production input tubes such as Sophia Blue, or PSVANE MKII, Shuguang Black Treasures, or former TJ Full Music, JJ gold pin Frame Grid tubes - in any of your preamps or for amp input tubes?
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wolf_garcia
6,723 posts
 
Unless you're into some esoteric old tube with tonal qualities you MUST have, great tubes of all types are abundantly available...and plenty of new ones have become hits among tube geeks...new Gold Lions, KT120s and 150s, Psvane items etc., and I still haven't heard any SS amp that sounds better than a well designed tube amp...zero...also note that the guitar amp world soldiers on using a lot of tubes, with new amp designs (and reissues of old amp designs) coming along all the time. Don't fear the tube...they simply make music sound a lot like it's supposed to.
fsonicsmith's avatar
fsonicsmith
964 posts
 
.also note that the guitar amp world soldiers on using a lot of tubes, with new amp designs (and reissues of old amp designs) coming along all the time. Don't fear the tube...they simply make music sound a lot like it's supposed to.
While I tend to agree with most of your posts on this topic, this old chestnut has to be surrendered to the trash pile where it belongs. I play around with the guitar only, but I go to a hell of a lot of live shows. Most recently Dweezil Zappa playing all of "Hot Rats". Modern guitar playing involves a lot of intentional distortion. Every hot guitarist with chops relies on a ton of effects pedals in addition to the intentional distortion produced by the tubed stacks. If you happen to get the Sweetwater catalog (which I strongly recommend for any audiophile to see the overlap with our hobby in terms of speakers, mixers, DAC's and lots of Manley pro gear on offer too), you will see that there are more pages devoted to effects pedals than any other musician's tool under the sun. It is simply amazing. Btw, this makes me think of Raulgas with his stupid motto "musics and not distortions" [sic]. Well guess what, a lot of recorded music contains a lot of intentional distortion including even classical music, but mostly rock and modern jazz. 
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,909 posts
 
I go to a hell of a lot of live shows. Most recently Dweezil Zappa playing all of "Hot Rats". Modern guitar playing involves a lot of intentional distortion. Every hot guitarist with chops relies on a ton of effects pedals in addition to the intentional distortion produced by the tubed stacks.
That depends on whether the amp is clipped. Guitar players like tube amps because they have less odd ordered harmonics when they clip, making them easier to sculpt more pleasant tones. But some guitar players don't clip their amps; the guitar players in my band (Thunderbolt Pagoda) are an example; instead they rely on their pedal effects for the sound, but prefer tubes otherwise. One is using a Marshall Major, which is built along high fidelity lines and was often used for for bass or sound re-enforcement- both applications where distortion isn't helpful. Other amps built along high fidelity are the early Sunn amps (highly sought after and using the guts of the Dynaco MkIII) and Ampeg amps like the V4. Guitar players also like to have a good 'clean sound' and good fidelity in the amplifier is crucial for that. An amp with a good clean sound easily reveals differences in pickups, 1/4" connectors and guitar cables- not all that different from what audiophiles experience in that regard.
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