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Are big subwoofers viable for 2 channel music?

In thinking about subwoofers to get for a large future listening space (30' x 30'). So far there seems to be a lot of great options for smaller subs for music.. such as the rel s812. Now my main focus will be music but I do plan to do some home theater on the system and I do enjoy subs that reach low and have strong but clear sub-bass. Would a large sealed sub still be able to provide clean tight bass that digs low and thus satisfy both duties. Can it ever match the speed and precision of a pair or more of rel 812s? Something like PSA S7201 or Captivator RS2?

A realize a smaller sub has a smaller moving mass and thus for a given level of power would be faster than a bigger sub with a bigger moving mass (driver mass). But a large sub would have to move less to achieve the same SPL and would reach lower.

Anyhow what do you guys think? Thanks.
smodtactical
big_greg
6,726 posts
 
I just want to make sure your realize that either Rhythmik option option will cost significantly more and will be less convenient to setup since you'll need to set the volume, frequency cutoff and phase controls separately on each sub, rather than once for all four subs on the Swarm.
Not owning a Swarm system I may be missing something, but I would think that having the ability to fine tune each individual sub would give one more flexibility and customization in their setup.  When I set up my four subs I took SPL readings for each sub to adjust the output so that they would be equal from my listening position.  I have one sitting just a few feet from my listening position and another on the far side of the room.  It doesn't seem that having them all at the same level would be a good thing.


bdp24's avatar
bdp24
10,285 posts
 

Four independent subs allows for maximum adjustability and flexibility. The controls on the Rythmik plate amps are the most extensive of any line I’m aware. They include:

- Continuously-variable Phase Control knob providing 0 degrees to 180 degrees of rotation (0 ms to 16 ms delay).

- On the non-XLR models, both high level (speaker binding posts) and line level (RCA jacks) hookup.

- Continuously-variable x/o filters from 25Hz to 120Hz, 12dB/octave and 24dB/octave, presets at 50Hz and 80Hz.

- High/Medium/Low Damping switch.

- 1-band PEQ with Bandwidth and Gain control.

- 14Hz/20Hz/28Hz Extension Filter switch.

- Rumble Filter switch..

- On most models both Line In and LFE In inputs.

- Two XLR models, great for sub locations requiring a long interconnect. And the XLR2 model provides Master/Slave operation for any number of subs, should you not want to adjust them separately.

And don’t forget, the patented Rythmik Direct Servo-Feedback circuitry. Plus, woofers designed by Brian Ding and manufactured by TC Sounds (you hardcore subwoofer guys know THAT name ;-) .

cissado
113 posts
 
Rythmik. At least look into them.

I have a medium/ large area and use 2 HP Rythmik 15" subs.  They do anything you ask them to do. High damping acts like a speaker. Start and stop on a dime. I believe it's the servo design. You wouldn't know I have subs until they're called upon. I use them for music and movies. Actually, you still dont know the subs are there, but I dont have speakers that go that low. They are absolutely seamless. 

I did have my audio set up by a pro. Took 5-6 hours for HT setup, but it can definitely be seemless.

I suggest 2 f18s for your room, then if needed, you can always get 2 more. I doubt you'll need more. You do get a 2 sub discount. 

Good luck
 
noble100's avatar
noble100
2,419 posts
 
big_greg and bdp24,

I agree with you both that four independent subs allows for maximum adjustability and flexibility. I know from personal experience, however, that this level of adjustability and flexibility is not required for excellent bass performance results using the Swarm system.
Audio Kinesis does state that bass performance can possibly be improved by inverting the phase on one of the four subs in some rooms but I noticed no improvement in my room with any of the subs having their phase reversed. Also, their suggested method of phase inversion is simply to reverse the pos. and neg. wires at the sub terminal connections.

big_greg: "I have one sitting just a few feet from my listening position and another on the far side of the room. It doesn’t seem that having them all at the same level would be a good thing."

My listening seat is positioned along my rear wall between two of the four subs, one positioned about 8’ away along the left side wall and the other about 3’ away along the right side wall. The two other subs are both about 20’ away along the front wall. All are operated in mono mode and at identical volumes. I perceive the bass on both music and HT as coming from the front of the room and never perceive the bass as coming from the subs nearest me to the right and left of my listening chair.
I believe this is due to the efficacy of the scientifically proven DBA concept that works exceptionally well in virtually any room and with any pair of main speakers.
This DBA concept takes advantage of both how bass sound waves behave in domestic sized rooms and the accumulated psycho-acoustic knowledge concerning how humans perceive sound at various frequencies. I can state with certainty that the 4-sub DBA concept works exceptionally well in my room and I believe it will work equally well in virtually any other room.

Tim
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
10,285 posts
 

The typical and common 2-position phase switch (0-180 degrees) found on many subs is far too crude for creating a seamless blend between a sub and a loudspeaker. The continuously-variable control provided on all Rythmik subs is what you want. That allows one to find the best acoustic position in the room for a sub (regarding the room's locations of eigenmodes: areas of high- and low-pressure low frequency energy storage), then using the phase control to get the sub and speaker to be in phase as much as possible.

The Rythmik website has a technical section covering all these matters in great detail. Well worth reading, even if you choose subs from a different company.

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