Are big subwoofers viable for 2 channel music?


In thinking about subwoofers to get for a large future listening space (30' x 30'). So far there seems to be a lot of great options for smaller subs for music.. such as the rel s812. Now my main focus will be music but I do plan to do some home theater on the system and I do enjoy subs that reach low and have strong but clear sub-bass. Would a large sealed sub still be able to provide clean tight bass that digs low and thus satisfy both duties. Can it ever match the speed and precision of a pair or more of rel 812s? Something like PSA S7201 or Captivator RS2?

A realize a smaller sub has a smaller moving mass and thus for a given level of power would be faster than a bigger sub with a bigger moving mass (driver mass). But a large sub would have to move less to achieve the same SPL and would reach lower.

Anyhow what do you guys think? Thanks.
smodtactical
Lusima31 wrote: "I found the same with my 4 AK subs, without the port plugs they sound very good so the sealed vs vented sub dilemma I have a feeling it depends on other things, maybe the dimensions (length and diameter) of the port in proportion to the enclosure? Not saying sealed is not good, just that I assumed for music sealed was always better and Duke prove otherwise."

Thank you Luis!

Arguably what matters most is the in-room frequency response. The ear is far more sensitive to frequency response than to time-domain response in the bass region, so the superior group delay behavior of a sealed sub is not a significant factor in sealed vs ported. (This is somewhat counter-intuitive, and is among the things I learned from Earl Geddes.)

Imo the correct "target response" for a subwoofer would take into account the effects of boundary reinforcement. "Typical" room gain from boundary reinforcement is about +3 dB per octave south of 100 Hz, according to a couple of different sources, but obviously it will vary with the specific acoustic conditions.

So let me try to explain what I believe to be the primary reason why sealed subs tend to sound better than vented subs: In general a sealed sub starts rolling off higher than a vented sub, but its rolloff is more gentle; whereas a vented sub is "flat" down to a lower frequency, then rolls off rapidly. Factor in room gain, and vented subs tend to have exaggerated low end above their inherent rapid rolloff, which tends to sound "boomy" and/or "slow"; on the other hand, room gain synergizes pretty well with the gentle rolloff of sealed subs. (This is all without factoring in EQ.)

The target response for my Swarm units in ported mode is the approximate inverse of room gain: They gently roll off at about 3 dB per octave from 80 Hz down to about 20 Hz, and then the rolloff accelerates rapidly below 20 Hz. Not saying this is the only valid approach, but it seems to work pretty well.

Luis again: "Just that Duke of AudioKinesis if I’m not mistaken was the 1st "commercially" to approach the array, the concept and theory comes from Geddes I believe?"

That’s correct. When Earl described his subwoofer concept to me, I immediately asked him if I could license it. He said no, that I could just use it. So the Swarm uses Earl’s ideas with his permission... but anyone else can use them as well, no permission required. He has trade secrets which he keeps to himself, but the distributed multi-sub concept is not among them.

Duke
I found the same with my 4 AK subs

I had PSA before, very powerful subs

for two channel systems definitely a swarm or array provides what you are looking for, you can select from existing of the shelf subs or go custom, a big part of it is how are you planning to integrate the 4 (minimal qty) subs,

I went custom and currently running 4 passive subs and could not be happier

@luisma31,

Would you mind describing your setup and the AudioKinesis gear used?

Duke,

I’m very close to becoming a customer in the future but can a customer use their own passive subwoofers of choice? Or do I have to use AudioKinesis designed passive speakers for best results? As I'm trying to understand if you would need to 'customize' your swarm peripherals, amps, speaker wire, crossovers and any other hardware to work with the subs a customer may propose. Or if you can or cannot do such a thing? I'm asking these questions with complete respect and sincerity of what you do and have accomplished and am just curious?
Tim, it might surprise you to hear that the system with the best bass I've ever heard consisted of two subwoofers and that they were crossed over at 120. I was quite surprised at the crossover point, but there was no denying what I (and a number of other pretty serious enthusiasts heard).

There's more than one way to skin a cat. 
Tyray asked: "Can a customer use their own passive subwoofers of choice?"

You can totally use your subs of choice, active or passive. Here is the amplifier that I use to drive my passive subs, note that it has a single band of EQ and a switchable 25 Hz "bass boost" circuit, which may come in handy with sealed subs:

https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sa1000-subwoofer-amplifier-rack-mountable--300-811

Tyray: "Or do I have to use AudioKinesis designed passive speakers for best results?"

I think the subs I designed work well for this application, but they are NOT required for good results. I don’t like to make claims like "best results" because in this hobby there is always something better... I’ll only claim "best I know how to make at my price point given where I think the goal posts are."

Tyray: "As I’m trying to understand if you would need to ’customize’ your swarm peripherals, amps, speaker wire, crossovers and any other hardware to work with the subs a customer may propose."

I don’t really "do" custom Swarm systems wherein I don’t at least supply the passive subs, but it’s not rocket surgery. Briefly...

Spread your subs asymmetrically around the room, perhaps with one (but no more than one) in a corner, and bonus points if you can raise at least one sub up off the floor such that it is closer to the ceiling than to the floor.

(If you prefer, you can also use a symmetrical configuration - see Todd Welti’s "Subwoofers: Optimum Numbers and Locations" on Harman’s website.)

Any subs which are fairly far from the main speakers, you want their top ends to be rolled off fairly steeply no higher than 80 Hz, so they don’t betray their locations by passing audible upper bass/lower midrange.

I usually find that reversing the polarity of the sub farthest from the main speakers tends to improve the in-room smoothness, but in a very large or open-floorplan room the result may be deficient in the bottom octave.

If you don’t have test equipment, when setting the controls on your subwoofer amp(s) by ear, the sequence is: First set the level, then the frequency, then the phase. Cycle back through this sequence several times to fine-tune. Credit to master acoustician Jeff Hedback for teaching me what the proper sequence is.

Duke
With Subwoofers the moor the better it distributes and even out unbalances in rooms .the best sub on the market period at $1500
or 7nder is the new SVS 3000 SB it has the latest 50+ bit processor that monitors control the drivers movement, plus processing with a good app great heavy duty driver and at $995 delivered buy 2 and even get $100 off 13 inch driver that weighs over 25 lbs and goes to 18 hz ,it has a short long pole piece 
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with a 16 inch driver both are best in class and won a Tons of awards  free shipping, 45 day audition ,free return and refund if not 
totally happy. And a 5 year warranty I sold my $1600 JL Audio 
for the 3000 they are excellent l