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Esoteric DV-50: Any cdp's Significantly better?

Is there are anyone out there who has compared the Esoteric DV-50 to a number of dedicated red book only players (or other universal's) and found one that is SIGNIFICANTLY better?

I stress significantly because in my humble opinion the redbook playback (if comparison unit is just a cd cd player only )must be significantly better to justify losing DVD-A, SACD and DVD-Video capability.

I keep hearing there are better one box solutions and being a die hard 2 channel fan I would sell my DV-50 if I found a player in the same price range that sounds significantly better. But every time I do an AB comparision to other well respected units the DV-50 has slayed each and every one.

So far, it has eaten the lunch of the Classe CDP-10, Ayre CX-7, Linn Ikemi, Cairn Fog Vers. 2, Cary 306/300, Arcam DV 27A and CD 33T, Myryad CD 600, etc. It even betters a Sony SCD 777ES/MF Tri-Vista 21 transport/dac combo that I previously owned. I'm only comparing the DV-50 to single box cd or universal players, but I just wanted to mention the Sony/MF combo. I'm sure there are some dac/transport combo's that will handily beat the DV 50.

Some may say that the DV 50 should beat all the above because the of price point ($5,500 vs. average price of $3,000 for the above players). But I disagree since conventional wisdom says that stand alone players (especially with the pedigree of those mentioned above) should produce better redbook than a universal player trying to be a jack of all trades. Only the DV 27A does video plus audio. By the way, I was very impressed with the 27A as just a cd player. Of all the above I would say the Ayre was the best.

Next on my list is the Electrocompaniet EMC 1UP and the Resolution Audio Opus 21. However, I must tell you I am really impressed with the DV 50 and all the great reviews are absolutely true. I've noticed that many people who are using it or comparing to other players are using the RCA analog outs instead of the balanced outs. There is a significant improvement in sound if you use the balanced outs and I'm only interested in hearing comments from people who have compared it against other players using the balanced outs on the DV-50.

My system components are as follows:

B&W N803's speakers & HTM-1 center
Cary Cinema 5 (5 x 200) amp
Anthem D1 Statement pre/pro
Esoteric DV 50
Acoustic Zen Satori Shotgun speaker wire
Nirvana SX balanced interconnects from DV-50 to Anthem
Acoustic Zen Matrix reference II interconnects from D1 to Cary
No after market power cords or isolation equipment

My system sounds great! Those who comment please make sure to specify what specific improvements you heard over the DV 50 and what cdp were you comparing it against.

AVGURU
avguru
avguru OP
116 posts
 
Pscialli,

The Marantz SA 11 was smoked on redbook by both the DV 50 and the X01. Wasn't even close. On SACD, it was 80% of the DV 50 and maybe 40% of the X01. It only took 1 minute to hear the differences and after about 5 minutes we cut off the SA 11. And that was through the Marantz's balanced outputs (yes, the SA 11 has balanced outputs).

The Esoteric players are in another league. I previously owned several Marantz units (DV 12S1, SA 12S1 and the DV 8400) and I know the Marantz "house sound" very well. All of their players are very warm, not very detailed, deep but soft bass, average dynamics, decent size soundstage with a laid back presentation (not forward). All of these characteristics are the exact opposite of the Esoteric pieces, which are extremely detailed with loads of dynamics, forward presentation and deep, powewful and detailed bass.

Had we compared the Marantz against other players in its s class I believe it would have done very well. But not against the Esoterics.

Just like the DV 8400 was no competition for the SA 14 (vers. 1 & 2), I'm sure the new DV 9500 is no competition for the SA 11. The SA 14 are SA 11 are Marantz's attempt to provide their very best audio performance in a cd player. And both signficantly improve on the performance of the 8400 and 9500. I don't need to hear the 9500 to know the SA 11 is a big improvement.

Regarding the Musical Fidelity buffer stage, when you get to cd playback on this level there is very little a $399 tube output can do for you. I use to own the MF Tri-Vista 21 dac combined with the Sony XA 777ES. It was a very good dac/ transport combination but not on the level of the DV 50. I owned both at the same time and faced them off on several occassions). So if the Tri-Vista 21 can't equal or outperfrom the DV 50 there's no way their output buffer stage can.

However, I believe it would work well on a cheaper mid-fi product like the Denon 2900 or something like that.

By the way, I have to add that the Marantz SA 11 is one beautiful looking cd player. I even like the gold color as its understated and not over done.

Hope that helps!

AVGURU
avguru OP
116 posts
 
Daltonlanny,

SACD is first, CD 2nd (but a very well recorded cd can give SACD playback on the DV 50 a run for its money, DVD Audio 3rd and DVD-Video last.

However, MGotlieb may disagree with me as he feels the DVD-Audio playback on the DV 50 is exceptional.

AVGURU
mgottlieb
334 posts
 
Guidocorona: No external clocks; too much money, not enough space in my system. Avguru: well, I listen based on what I hear live, and because I go to so many concerts, I have never found any two channel system to sound anything like what I hear in the hall. However, the modern multichannel systems don't work for me either--too software-dependent, too many mikes, and when you are supposed to use 5 identical speakers, how good are any of them going to be? For years I've used a SONY 505 ES delay/ambiance unit from the mid-'80s, which only requires a small rear channel amp and two small speakers similar to the front speakers in overall character, and what I hear through that set-up is similar in kind to a real hall, although of course not in degree. In four channels, the X-01 throws a wide, close (to my seat) soundfront, and sounds extraordinarily like my 8th row center subscription seats. The Omega presented a more blended, slightly narrower soundfront, much more like my 25th row center seats for my other subscription. The turntable is somewhere in between. General preference? Well, I did buy the X-01 and sell the Omega, yes? If I turn off the rear speakers, I hear all the things reviewers and audiophiles obsess over--layering, imaging, etc., but they generally sound somewhat artificial, because there is no sense of the hall. Sorry, I'm sure that didn't help you. Last thing you asked: I find DVD-A, sonically, noticeably better on the DV-50 than SACD: greater dynamic range, clearer midrange, definitely cleaner in the low frequencies. Better playback or better medium? Don't know. Probably doesn't matter--as a purely audio medium to me DVD-A seems too clumsy to hang on except as a marginal foremat, and where's the software?
reb1208
518 posts
 
SA11 (and all Marantz players)have inverted polarity from balanced outputs. You need to try better next time. You were listening to an inverted signal. Do you even understand what that means.......I wonder. DV-50 is the worst player I even owned for music playback. Again, home theatre is what a DVD player is made for. SA11 on the other hand, is the most neutral, detailed, open sounding machine to ever grace my system. In other words, it comes very close to analog playback. Turning a player on from cold and making a judgement call is rediculous. In fact, you must be firing up the DV-50 right before each listen. See what happens to it though after it has been on 5 hours. Closed in, with muddy/over powerful bass. One dimensional soundstage, with poor transparency. DVD audio is the only format that is truly outstanding on DV-50. I truly feel bad for those that are still in denial. Best things those types can do is to never read a stereo mag ever again. They really blew the call on the DV-50. Belongs is catagory c minus.
pscialli
80 posts
 
Thank you AVGuru for your thoughtful reply to my questions. On my main system right now, I am using a Denon 2200 stock which I hate. I bought it too hastily on the strength of a brief review in TAS 149. I have yet to try the MF buffer stage on that system, but suspect it will help. However, I think it will be just a bandaid. I am currently very actively looking for a new CD/SACD player. My budget has a cap, I'd say of $4k either new or used nd I'd like to stay as much below that as possible so I can live to play another day. Audio has a relatively low WAF around here. A used DV50 is definitely still on the short list. Another machine I'm considering, and your comments would be welcome is the Underwood-modified Music Hall Maverick player. This runs $2k complete and, on paper it looks good. I think it was 6Moons that had a review of the modded machine and it went over very well. Any thoughts? My personal reference sound is that of my Linn Lp12, Ittok arm and Clearaudio Virtuoso Wood cartridge. Thanks.

Peter
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