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Seriously considering tube preamp…opinions?

Tube virgin, here. I am building a system and I'm trying to contain the preamp/amp cost to $3k or so. (I could go up a little.) 

I'm inclined not to dive into tubes all the way through, but get a solid state on the output end. (Open to suggestions; inclined toward PS Audio, Parasound.) I'm reading around about tube preamps and have talked with my local dealer, who sells Black Ice/Jolida and Prima Luna (PL). He used to carry Rogue but said they kept coming back for repairs. That's why he carries PL.

I'm asking these questions after having established (via reviews, comments) that Schiit gear is quite the value. Lately, I've been reading about Decware and other small tube makers. I'm very curious about buying direct, if possible, and a company that stands behind their products is crucial.

So, your opinions about tube integrated or *especially* tube preamps —

1. Who do you like? Consider I want to do pre/amp for a total of $3k if possible.

2. Do you think PL is worth all that money just for a preamp? I get the feeling they're high quality but a bit over-hyped. (No disrespect to the highly passionate Kevin Deal, but he's all over my search results.) And what would you think about $2k/$1k preamp-to-amp spending ratio?

3. Any sense of what happened to Jolida since the name change to "Black Ice"? I see there's a sordid story there but did the re-branding clear up the mess? Any experiences with the Black Ice company?

4. I know there are many Schiit fans out there; so my question would be -- did anyone consider Schiit for tube preamp and go another way? Or move beyond Schiit for any particular reason? It's hard not to just capitulate and do a Freya+ or Saga+ but why wouldn't one just go with Schiit?




128x128hilde45
english210
175 posts
 
I’m continuing to follow this thread with great interest, being on a similar journey. Not starting from scratch, but trying to get the most out of what I’ve got, and feeling a good pre, likely a good tube pre, will be my next step. Partly curiosity, partly because the aspect of tubes that is most talked about is the emotional involvement they tend to facilitate. My room is live, so anything in the family of harsh/bright/analytical/etc is to be avoided, I’m bordering on that now. 

The option to audition all the choices listed here by various members is obviously not realistic, and it seems more and more clear that once specific criteria are met (ht bypass needed or not, balanced/SE preference, phone or not, etc), the vast majority of the options would provide great results. Each manufacturer has their share of proponents, with few serious detractors. Someone that chose a DS, for example, probably wouldn’t have been disappointed with a like-priced Supratek/Atma-sphere/Rogue (random brands, don’t attach meaning) in terms of sound quality. 
Fair to say?
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,030 posts
 
@english210 Since I’m a student too, I don’t have grounds to confirm what you’re saying.

What I will say is that from my research here and elsewhere there is a relatively small number of makers that fulfill certain metrics above the fundamental ones related to quality of design & build and sound quality. For me, the telling metrics are: simplicity of utility and aesthetics (not trying to be too complicated, too user friendly, or a showpiece), company reputation (warranty, customer service, longevity), and popularity with serious reviewers (both journalist and hobbyist). Off the top of my head, the list fitting all those metrics and appearing repeatedly here include QS, deHavilland, Sachs, Supratek, Atmas-phere, Erhard, Herron, VAC. I’m sure I left some out, as you can see I'm leaning toward smaller but very well-established independents. And again, this is just my summary of what others have been saying and what I’ve read in professional publications.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,909 posts
 
I think most of this boils down to system synergy.
I'd be careful about that- if you pair a bright preamp with a dull amp, the result will not be neutral. I recommend to all our customers that whatever they buy, each piece in the system should stand on its own merits rather than hopefully being corrected for its faults somewhere down stream; the latter is a recipe for flushing dollars down the loo.


The one exception to this is that not all amplifiers drive all speakers. This is true regardless of the amplifier, although there are speakers that are driven equally well by many amps. for more on this:
http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/Paradigms_in_Amplifier_Design.php
mikem
260 posts
 
Schiit Freya+ is all you need.. 3 preamps in one..  SQ is excellent, clean and detailed.. Not a lush tubey exaggerated sound, but a modern tube sound without the bloating that some tubes preamps offer. A 128 stepped Resistive attenuation is used ! That alone makes it worthy choice regardless of price..  not to mention that the 6SN7’s make a great choice for a preamp.. 
I used a Transformer based TVC for decades before going back to an active preamp.. The Freya+ Added all the attributes of tubes without the downfalls..  A great Value at any price !! 
mglik
911 posts
 
First, the only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
So, IMO, the most musical and human sound is from a single ended triode amp or preamp (SET). Think the SET is the oldest still used audio amp circuit. Used in the first Bell telephone systems (WE). Funny, SS wants to sound more like tubes and multiple output tube amps want to sound more like SETs... sort of.
I have two SET amps and an SET preamp. Would never change. Good to be off the "merry-go-round"! Importantly, I have a speakers I love and they work great with 1 1/2 or 8 watts.
Ralph, I respect your work. In my experience with one of your amps, it had a similar character to Dave Berning's OTLs: very clean and neutral sound and kind of SS sounding. Great to listen to but lacking in the "humanness" I love in SETs. Kind of "juicy". BTW-I love to listen to Dave's prototype MicroZOTL daily with my headphones. The OTL clarity is excellent for headphones. Listening to it as I write.
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