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Seriously considering tube preamp…opinions?

Tube virgin, here. I am building a system and I'm trying to contain the preamp/amp cost to $3k or so. (I could go up a little.) 

I'm inclined not to dive into tubes all the way through, but get a solid state on the output end. (Open to suggestions; inclined toward PS Audio, Parasound.) I'm reading around about tube preamps and have talked with my local dealer, who sells Black Ice/Jolida and Prima Luna (PL). He used to carry Rogue but said they kept coming back for repairs. That's why he carries PL.

I'm asking these questions after having established (via reviews, comments) that Schiit gear is quite the value. Lately, I've been reading about Decware and other small tube makers. I'm very curious about buying direct, if possible, and a company that stands behind their products is crucial.

So, your opinions about tube integrated or *especially* tube preamps —

1. Who do you like? Consider I want to do pre/amp for a total of $3k if possible.

2. Do you think PL is worth all that money just for a preamp? I get the feeling they're high quality but a bit over-hyped. (No disrespect to the highly passionate Kevin Deal, but he's all over my search results.) And what would you think about $2k/$1k preamp-to-amp spending ratio?

3. Any sense of what happened to Jolida since the name change to "Black Ice"? I see there's a sordid story there but did the re-branding clear up the mess? Any experiences with the Black Ice company?

4. I know there are many Schiit fans out there; so my question would be -- did anyone consider Schiit for tube preamp and go another way? Or move beyond Schiit for any particular reason? It's hard not to just capitulate and do a Freya+ or Saga+ but why wouldn't one just go with Schiit?




128x128hilde45
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,841 posts
 
I think most of this boils down to system synergy.
I'd be careful about that- if you pair a bright preamp with a dull amp, the result will not be neutral. I recommend to all our customers that whatever they buy, each piece in the system should stand on its own merits rather than hopefully being corrected for its faults somewhere down stream; the latter is a recipe for flushing dollars down the loo.


The one exception to this is that not all amplifiers drive all speakers. This is true regardless of the amplifier, although there are speakers that are driven equally well by many amps. for more on this:
http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/Paradigms_in_Amplifier_Design.php
mikem
260 posts
 
Schiit Freya+ is all you need.. 3 preamps in one..  SQ is excellent, clean and detailed.. Not a lush tubey exaggerated sound, but a modern tube sound without the bloating that some tubes preamps offer. A 128 stepped Resistive attenuation is used ! That alone makes it worthy choice regardless of price..  not to mention that the 6SN7’s make a great choice for a preamp.. 
I used a Transformer based TVC for decades before going back to an active preamp.. The Freya+ Added all the attributes of tubes without the downfalls..  A great Value at any price !! 
mglik
908 posts
 
First, the only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
So, IMO, the most musical and human sound is from a single ended triode amp or preamp (SET). Think the SET is the oldest still used audio amp circuit. Used in the first Bell telephone systems (WE). Funny, SS wants to sound more like tubes and multiple output tube amps want to sound more like SETs... sort of.
I have two SET amps and an SET preamp. Would never change. Good to be off the "merry-go-round"! Importantly, I have a speakers I love and they work great with 1 1/2 or 8 watts.
Ralph, I respect your work. In my experience with one of your amps, it had a similar character to Dave Berning's OTLs: very clean and neutral sound and kind of SS sounding. Great to listen to but lacking in the "humanness" I love in SETs. Kind of "juicy". BTW-I love to listen to Dave's prototype MicroZOTL daily with my headphones. The OTL clarity is excellent for headphones. Listening to it as I write.
markusthenaimnut's avatar
markusthenaimnut
371 posts
 
@mglik 
Question for you, since I'm intrigued by your comments.

How efficient are your speakers? I have a pair of ~94 dB efficient speakers (in addition to Quad 2805s). It seems that 94dB is not quite in the happy zone for low powered SET amplifiers. Hence my question to you.

What SET equipment are you using? What else have you tried? What are your recommendations?

Thanks, in advance, for any help you can provide.

Markus
kray's avatar
kray
229 posts
 
What do you consider low power?

I’d probably want at least 4wpc with 94db speakers especially if they have more than one driver. 
I’m using Omega Super 6 with a single Alnico driver rated at 96db and works marvelously with 1.5wpc Oliver Sayes 45 based single ended amp. And a 3wpc DG-SE1 EL84 based single ended amp. 
Also having Oliver build me a low gain tube preamp. 
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