Thiel Owners
@beetlmania Thanks , when I made my speaker cables there were 2 main variables replacing the 2 x 11.5 awg ( 8.5 awg ) Neutral Reference speaker cables with 1 x 9.5 awg chassis wire and keeping them sperated to eliminate capacitance . I was well rewarded by doing this but I can't tell which change had the most positive affect . |
@oblgny , Have you ever considered Thiel CS 2's? I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just offering an option for consideration. I know you're a fan of the 3.5's, but circumstances might be keeping you from those. I see CS 2's regularly listed for a few hundred bucks. Somewhat similar to the 3.5's in sonic signature, but also somewhat easier to drive. Other than perhaps for some amplifiers and to a lesser extant some speaker cables, upstream components would suit both equally well. If and when considering, do make sure to inspect the drivers. Though the CS 2's might have been Thiel's most durable models, I've seen examples of unscrupulous sellers passing off other drivers as OEM. The CS 2's somewhat unique grills, which perhaps more so than any other Thiel model needs to be in place when used, have additional and rather sturdy double sided tape attached to the baffle. At first it might seem as though the grills can't be removed, but they can. Be sure to inspect that the drivers are genuine Thiel's. All in all the CS 2's might make transitioning back to 3.5's when circumstances permit rather easy. |
For those who prefers time-phase coherent design, you may find this article interesting. They compared an identical speaker that was done with time-phase coherent and with more conventional approach. Since the comparison was done on the same identical speaker, it has some credibility. You could read the article, but the finding was the difference was subtle and more clearly heard in an
anechoic chamber but if done in a regular living room, with reflections and all that, the difference was more difficult to hear. https://audioxpress.com/article/zero-phase-in-studio-monitors |
Andy - thanks for the article. I would mention that some of the statements are broad enough in nature that they don't apply to any specific loudspeaker in its use conditions. Of course, I mean Thiel. Toole's statement that off axis (vertical and horizontal) integration always suffers (paraphrase) is such a statement. Indeed it is true. But it is also true that a Thiel speaker 30° or 60° off axis is linear in both phase and amplitude. It is clearly true that the 1st order vertical axis lobing requires a single vertical listening position, ear height 3' up at 8' plus distance. But the up-tilting driver orientation and the resultant off-axis listening axis serve to create an average in-room phase and amplitude power response that is quite respectable, often bettering non-aligned counterparts. As to the obvious dynamic range limitations due to large driver excursions - granted. First order slopes don't work well for stadium coverage or high-amplitude monitors. Driver overload is the Achilles Heel that we constantly fought and gradually improved. Drivers burn out or fatigue when asked to cover large frequency bands. But for livingroom hi fi, Thiel developed drivers that did well enough. Despite the claim of near or no audibility of phase correctness in real playback rooms, Thiel demonstrated it over a long period of years to our complete satisfaction that phase coherence was audible enough to merit tackling all the hassles that came with it. And for some jujitsu, phase coherence made other anomalies much more obvious, requiring solutions to problems that would have remained invisible in normal phase-compromised systems. |
