IM Distortion, Speakers and the Death of Science


One topic that often comes up is perception vs. measurements.

"If you can't measure it with common, existing measurements it isn't real."

This idea is and always will be flawed. Mind you, maybe what you perceive is not worth $1, but this is not how science works. I'm reminded of how many doctors and scientists fought against modernizing polio interventions, and how only recently did the treatment for stomach ulcers change radically due to the curiosity of a pair of forensic scientists.

Perception precedes measurement.  In between perception and measurement is (always) transference to visual data.  Lets take an example.

You are working on phone technology shortly after Bell invents the telephone. You hear one type of transducer sounds better than another.  Why is that?  Well, you have to figure out some way to see it (literally), via a scope, a charting pen, something that tells you in an objective way why they are different, that allows you to set a standard or goal and move towards it.

This person probably did not set out to measure all possible things. Maybe the first thing they decide to measure is distortion, or perhaps frequency response. After visualizing the raw data the scientist then has to decide what the units are, and how to express differences. Lets say it is distortion. In theory, there could have been a lot of different ways to measure distortion.  Such as Vrms - Vrms (expected) /Hz. Depending on the engineer's need at the time, that might have been a perfectly valid way to measure the output.

But here's the issue. This may work for this engineer solving this time, and we may even add it to the cannon of common measurements, but we are by no means done.

So, when exactly are we done?? At 1? 2? 5?  30?  The answer is we are not.  There are several common measurements for speakers for instance which I believe should be done more by reviewers:

- Compression
- Intermodulation ( IM ) Distortion
- Distortion

and yet, we do not. IM distortion is kind of interesting because I had heard about it before from M&K's literature, but it reappeared for me in the blog of Roger Russel ( http://www.roger-russell.com ) formerly from McIntosh. I can't find the blog post, but apparently they used IM distortion measurements to compare the audibility of woofer changes quite successfully.

Here's a great example of a new measurement being used and attributed to a sonic characteristic. Imagine the before and after.  Before using IM, maybe only distortion would have been used. They were of course measuring impedance and frequency response, and simple harmonic distortion, but Roger and his partner could hear something different not expressed in these measurements, so, they invent the use of it here. That invention is, in my mind, actual audio science.

The opposite of science would have been to say "frequency, impedance, and distortion" are the 3 characteristics which are audible, forever. Nelson pass working with the distortion profile, comparing the audible results and saying "this is an important feature" is also science. He's throwing out the normal distortion ratings and creating a whole new set of target behavior based on his experiments.  Given the market acceptance of his very expensive products I'd say he's been damn good at this.

What is my point to all of this?  Measurements in the consumer literature have become complacent. We've become far too willing to accept the limits of measurements from the 1980's and fail to develop new standard ways of testing. As a result of this we have devolved into camps who say that 1980's measures are all we need, those who eschew measurements and very little being done to show us new ways of looking at complex behaviors. Some areas where I believe measurements should be improved:

  • The effects of vibration on ss equipment
  • Capacitor technology
  • Interaction of linear amps with cables and speaker impedance.

We have become far too happy with this stale condition, and, for the consumers, science is dead.
erik_squires
I can only say "huh"? "Indepedence of conscious" ....
Medical reanimation research that confirm many times perception without brain function does not count?

Scientific literature for that is vast now, medicine is a science also you know....

Personal experience is lies or hallucinations also for you, the cannot be facts even if correlated and corroborated?

Mathematics you dont know has no value either?

Grothendieck concept of universe no value?
Penrose reading of Godel no value?
Godel valuing intuition over logic: the hallucination of a moron in logic?
Cantor advocating the creation of new concepts in mathematics over formal logic, an idiot?

Purely a philosophical statement with no grounding in facts
You make me smile , fact without philosophical interpretation exist?

A rock is a rock when your feet push it.... All reality is there ?




But there is a glimpse of hope in your dogmas, if you think seriously at "this something we can agree on" you will understand my point about the creation of concepts...

This may be something we can agree on, though more likely co-existence in the same space could be incompatible.

and would be at some point incompatible with the survival of the human race...
I apologize for being a bit arrogant but you are yourself at least on par with me.... :)

I will not try to convince you, consciousness transform itself only at the right moment in his evolutive dynamic.... Arguing is of no value it is better to see by ourselves... My best to you...
IMHO Penrose went a little bit crazy later on you know, with the Emperor’s New Mind and the quantum mechanics of the brain/mind. Way too philosophical. When it come to mind-matter interaction I want some meat on the bones. If you ask me, Bohm and Rupert Sheldrake hit the nail much more on the head in terms of both mind-matter interaction and quantum mechanics of the mind. And yes, Peter Belt hit it even more on the head! The perception of sound is not entirely the signal. And the noise and distortion is not entirely that comprised in the measured Signal to Noise + Distortion ratio. 
Sheldrake and Penrose are not contradictory theory at all...

and Geoff I apologize for not knowing Peter Belt theory sorry...I am mostly interested by mathematics....

IMHO Penrose went a little bit crazy later on you know, with the Emperor’s New Mind and the quantum mechanics of the brain/mind. Way too philosophical.
This is not true by the way, a theory of consciousness implicating quantum theory, a reinterpretation of the role of gravity, and a cosmological theory and microtubules biology and neurology, linked together in some experimental research programs is not only a philosophical one, sorry....

Read Hameroff and Penrose they worked together...You must refresh your reading because Penrose and Hameroff collaboration begins after the publication of the Emperor`s new mind 35 five years ago ... :)


By the way all that Penrose conceptions are only one example of an interesting theory, they are other one...Personally I even have mine, implicating linguistic and mathematic...

The only point of view in common with all the theories that interest me: they are not materialist one.... Materialism is gone now for good after 1925... Except for crowds....But I know for sure you know that already....Heaudio does not seems to know that at this moment.... My best to you all...
The perception of sound is not entirely the signal. And the noise and distortion is not entirely that comprised in the measured Signal to Noise + Distortion ratio.
This is also my understanding....I cannot negate that at all...


Phenomena are so interlinked with one another, that to understand some we must separated them artificially...This separation is necessary, but this impose a limitation to the understanding that we must be conscious of... If not, we begins to be dogmatic.... Sorry heaudio...