Why do intelligent people deny audio differences?


In my years of audiophilia I have crossed swords with my brother many times regarding that which is real, and not real, in terms of differeces heard and imagined.
He holds a Masters Degree in Education, self taught himself regarding computers, enough to become the MIS Director for a school system, and early in life actually self taught himself to arrange music, from existing compositions, yet he denys that any differece exists in the 'sound' of cables--to clarify, he denies that anyone can hear a difference in an ABX comparison.
Recently I mentioned that I was considering buying a new Lexicon, when a friend told me about the Exemplar, a tube modified Dennon CD player of the highest repute, video wise, which is arguably one of the finest sounding players around.
When I told him of this, here was his response:
"Happily I have never heard a CD player with "grainy sound" and, you know me, I would never buy anything that I felt might be potentially degraded by or at least made unnecessarily complex and unreliable by adding tubes."

Here is the rub, when cd players frist came out, I owned a store, and was a vinyl devotee, as that's all there was, and he saw digital as the panacea for great change; "It is perfect, it's simply a perfect transfer, ones and zero's there is no margin for error," or words to that effect.
When I heard the first digital, I was appalled by its sterility and what "I" call 'grainy' sound. Think of the difference in cd now versus circa 1984. He, as you can read above resists the notion that this is a possibility.
We are at constant loggerheads as to what is real and imagined, regarding audio, with him on the 'if it hasn't been measured, there's no difference', side of the equation.
Of course I exaggerate, but just the other day he said, and this is virtually a quote, "Amplifiers above about a thousand dollars don't have ANY qualitative sound differences." Of course at the time I had Halcro sitting in my living room and was properly offended and indignant.
Sibling rivalry? That is the obvious here, but this really 'rubs my rhubarb', as Jack Nicholson said in Batman.
Unless I am delusional, there are gargantual differences, good and bad, in audio gear. Yet he steadfastly sticks to his 'touch it, taste it, feel it' dogma.
Am I losing it or is he just hard headed, (more than me)?
What, other than, "I only buy it for myself," is the answer to people like this? (OR maybe US, me and you other audio sickies out there who spend thousands on minute differences?
Let's hear both sides, and let the mud slinging begin!
lrsky
>>the scientific response should be that since existing electrical testing methodology has only shown minor differences,and that A/B/X testing has not determined anything sufficient, that there must be some other testing methodology found to either support or refute this widespread observation.<<

The number of people who hold a particular belief does not add validity to the belief. Where I grew up, there was a road up in the mountains where if you stopped your car and took your foot off the brake, your car would seem to roll uphill. People would scream and freak out. People who didn't believe would become converted upon experiencing this phenomenon. Then, after some scientific investigation, it turned out it was just as optical illusion. Cars were actually rolling downhill. Didn't matter how many people believed their cars were rolling uphill -- they weren't. When investigation revealed that it was an illusion, it would be standing logic on its head to suggest that the number of people who believed their cars were rolling uphill meant that scientists should keep devising new tests until they could support what the community believed.

There are all kinds of examples of this.

There are people who believe they can determine where water is located underground by using a curved tree branch. They are called "dowsers." In some rural communities, they are held in high esteem. But, when tested, none of these dowsers have proven to have any such ability. What happens when dowsers and psychics fail the test? You guessed it. They blame the test.

In the best case scenario -- there are beliefs held by audiophiles in great numbers, but which have not stood up under scientific testing, but which audiophiles nevertheless continue to believe. If one believes in something for which there is no proof -- then that is, by definition, called faith.

Skeptics will not be won over by the numbers of people who believe and people who believe will always be vexed by skeptics.

If one is a believer in things for which there is no proof, it seems to me that the believers should simply accept the fact that there is no proof, embrace the belief as a belief, and accept the fact that -- at this point -- skeptics simply are not going to be won over by anything other than iron clad scientific proof.

Trying to raise anecdotal testimonial to the level of proof won't do it.

Simply attacking the tests won't do it, either.

Again -- best case scenario -- maybe the tests ARE invalid. Let's just assume for the sake of argument that they are. That just means there is no test to prove what the believers believe so it remains unproven.

Only two problems remain.

The desire to have others believe and the frustration that develops when this desire --for whatever reason -- becomes acute.

I would only suggest that we each take a personal inventory and look into why we need others to believe as we believe, how acute is that need, to what lengths we are willing to go to try to try to convince non-believers, what is the quality of the evidence we have to offer, why is it so damned important to convince others rather than just have a discussion between people who hold different beliefs, and how do we behave when confronted with a non-believer? Do we call names, engage in ad hominem attacks, form in-groups and out-groups? A cursory look around these audio forums reveals that we do indeed engage in all of this unfortunate behavior.

What does it all mean?

We're human.

And -- it ain't just about cables.

.







>>Since that thread has since been deleted ( hmmmm... wonder why??? )<<

Well, if you think you posted a lot of scientifically valid, educational stuff and they deleted it, I don't blame you for wondering why. On the other hand, you posted much of the same stuff in this thread, it was refuted -- everyone can see it was refuted -- yet you continue to claim that I have no answer and perhaps even more strangely continue to profess that the references I post actually support you, just as you told me in the other thread that people agree with you, but refuse to admit, etc. etc.

Hmmmm......

I'm just guessing here, but maybe Audiogon doesn't see the educational value in the approach you've taken on this particular topic and maybe they didn't think it was worth archiving.

Or, maybe they feel they've got enough examples of these squabbles over cables in the archives already.

Who knows?

Those would be my guesses.
I am in virtually perfect agreement with TWL, in his comments. I have always believed that, just because we don't know what to measure for, or precisely how to measure a certain event; this does not mean that it does not exist, nor that it didn't happen.
In the Scientific Journal of @1898, a comment was made, and I believe attributed to the US. Patent office, to the effect, that 'all that can be invented, has been invented, or discovered.' Now this is a very lose, and imprecise quote, but the essence of what was said is correct. But I think it conveys at least part of my philosophy, and TWL's.
That is why I mentioned that I only preferred, what sounded better, 'to me' as a designer, not what had the best reputation,or was 'supposed to be better.' It takes guts to simply follow your gut and say, 'this is better.'
The caveat here is, of course, 'to me'. Therein lies the subjectivity. But again, I think TWL is on the mark. Good comments, and I too am glad to see that some research is being done, such as you mention.
RSBECK,
Was this in colorado? There is a road up here in the mile high that the same thing occurs
Lrsky

"all that there is to be invented, has been invented"

I remember hearing about that exact same comment, the person who said it was held in great regard, like an ex-president or something.
ANyone know who said that?