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Swarming!

Hi folks!

Hope everyone is doing well.

I just got my Swarm Distributed Subwoofer Array from AudioKinesis hooked up.

Wow!

Pre Swarm setup:

Office (10 x 14 minus closets):

Amp: Hegel H190 integrated, Bryston P26 preamp, Ampzilla 2000 Second Edition monoblock amps
Speakers: KEF LS 50 non wireless, Ologe 5, Magnepan LRS


So two subs arrived yesterday (Saturday).

With two subs and the Dayton amp, I first hooked up one sub in various positions on the floor.

Listened to a variety of music.
Played around with the gain.
After four crawls and two more "just to confirm" crawls, I located and left Sub 1.

I’m still a newbie here so apologies in advance if the proper terminology escapes me when I try to describe all the ways everything (not just the bass) just sounds a lot better.

While it sounded better than three other subs I tried, the bass got less clear soon after the gain was up enough to hear the sub and especially when I moved around the room.

Now, with Sub 1 optimally (for now) placed, Sub 2 took the rest of the evening.

Sub 2 is ceiling facing (3" clearance from the ceiling) on a long shelf behind the listening position.
Spent a few hours sliding it left and right, flipping it over to fire the port in the opposite direction, etc.

Flipped it three times.
My back was starting to complain when I first got it up on the shelf. These things are heavy and awkward to remove from a high shelf when flipping over, not to mention the heart stopping, lose balance or grip on the sub, close call moments!

Decided to leave it in the corner where the shelf meets the right wall with the port facing the corner and wait for the other subs.

The improvement, though not significant, was more than noticeable at my listening position.
The improvement started to get significant when I rolled my chair around the room or got up and walked around.

Things sounded pretty good in more areas of the room.
I heard more quality out of the newly added quantity of bass.

The other two subs arrived today.

Duke at AudioKinesis suggested varying the heights of the ceiling facing sub(s) if possible as this will affect the vertical plane.

So,...

Subs 3 and 4 are also ceiling facing with a 6" clearance located in the left and right front corners of the room.
They are perched on steel wire shelving units allowing for one inch height increments. The added storage space with the shelves is a huge bonus!

Turned the music back on a little while ago.

What a mind blowing experience!
While the LRS made the room seem bigger, with all four subs firing, the Swarm seemed to add body, intensity and dynamics to the "bigger room".  Just about anywhere in the room.

I can raise the gain much higher and actually enjoy the clarity and evenness in the added bass.
Bass is not lost at low volumes. I can actually hear more details in the bass without needing to raise the volume.

Absolutely love the LRS! Thought the bass was pretty good. Didn’t hit like the LS 50s but seemed more than adequate.
But after a satisfactory gain setting and listening with the Swarm added, I got up and turned the gain all the way down and listened to just the LRS.
The Swarm added such a high quality and intense "kick" to the low end that just went away.

This got me out of my chair again to bring the gain back up.
A remote for the Dayton sure would be great!

I just can’t imagine listening to my system without this really cool subwoofer solution!

Limited to a small room?

Yes, there are four sizeable subs and an additional amp to place.
I thought there was no way that would work in such a small 10’ x 14’room.

Why four subs?
For anyone not familiar with the Distributed Bass Array concept, search through these threads.
There are numerous postings on this by some really knowledgeable people. (millercarbon and noble100, especially)

With three of the subs up high, the fourth sub is the only additional piece taking up floor space.

It’s been only about 2 hours listening with the Swarm in place.
With just the first sub placed via crawling and the other three just put in place, everything sounds like my system had a major upgrade!

It’s actually quite shocking! Seriously.

Excited to experiment with the subwoofer heights, different amps and also with the LS 50s and Ologe 5s.

Kodus to Duke at AudioKinesis for building such an effective, simple and flexible subwoofer solution!

These things actually look pretty cool too! Zero WAF issues!


Stay safe and healthy everyone!

hleeid
clio09
3,355 posts
 
One more question. With the idea of swarming subs, what about long runs of single ended(RCA)cable? Is that going to be a problem with a 30' plus run?
@mizmike I use a 6' RCA cable in my Swarm. Duke at Audio Kinesis suggested not going any longer than that unless running balanced.
@mizike, what problems might you be anticipating?

I Swarm differently than most around here as I don't use active subs and do not use the Dayton Audio amp that is part of the AudioKinesis offering. That being said I run 20' plus unbalanced RCA terminated cables to my bass amp and have no issues whatsoever.
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,299 posts
 
Congrats. I have similar same size small room with Kef ls50s and one game but measly Klipsch sub 8” albeit with two additional 8” passive radiators for three drivers total facing side forward and side and I know how good even that sounds.


I bought that specific compact  sub with the 3 drivers facing different directions for reasons similar to why one would run multiple separate subs. I have the bass dialed in at my main listening spot and it stays fairly consistent at other locations as well. I suspect the 3 drivers facing different directions helps.

I can’t envision 4 separate subs in such a small room but once set up well why not?
noble100's avatar
noble100
2,419 posts
 
Hello mizike,

RCA cables are only utilized to connect line-level outputs from other components to the Swarm’s Dayton SA1000 sub amp’s line-level Left/Right and LEF inputs. Single lines of speaker wire are utilized to connect all four subs to the Dayton sub amp’s two sets (A and B) of pos./neg. speaker-level output terminals in a series/parallel configuration.
Series/parallel configuration consists of a single speaker wire from the sub amp’s A pos. output terminal to sub#1’s pos input terminal, a single speaker wire from the sub amp’s A neg. output terminal to sub#2’s neg. input terminal and a third single speaker wire from sub#2’s pos, input terminal to sub#1’s neg. input terminal to complete the series/parallel circuit for subs #1 and #2.      Subs #3 and #4 are also connected in series/parallel configuration to the sub amp’s B pos.and neg. output terminals in the same manner. Any signal loss caused by long speaker wire runs are compensated for through increasing the Dayton sub amp’s volume/level control.      Series/parallel hookup also allows the Dayton amp to be under an overall single 4 ohm load, even though each of the individual 10” subs are rated at 4 ohms, and therefore the amp is able to output a total of 1,000 watts to power them.      The overall result in my system and room is mono bass from 4 relatively small subs at 12”x14.5”x28” and 40 pounds, that Is sufficiently fast, smooth and detailed to blend seamlessly with my very fast, smooth and detailed Magnepan 3.7i main speakers. At the same time, the total bass output is capable of being as deep, powerful and dynamic as the source material calls for, down to 20 Hz +/- 3 db and at an output SPL of up to 115 db.
     The 4-sub DBA concept has proven to be an excellent complement to my main speakers, since it provides the high quality, powerful and dynamic bass below about 35 Hz that my main speakers, having a rated bass extension of 35 Hz, are not capable of providing.      I also realize that my main speakers having a bass extension of only 35 Hz is actually a blessing in disguise. This is because I’m certain that having 4 independently positioned subs in a distributed bass array in my room results in superior bass quality performance than 2 bass transducers, being restricted to being positioned in the same relative room position and panel as my main speakers’ other transducers, would be capable of producing, even if they were planar-dynamic dipole panels with bass extension down to 20 Hz +/- 3 db and capable of doing so at a 115 db SPL

Tim

dnicol
19 posts
 
Just got a swarm debra system, using dayton SA1000, questions for those who have set these up.

1) What are the effects of blocking the ports, why would you want to do that?

2) I'm setting the amp at 90 degree phase, 75 hz freq, not using the EQ. What settings do you use and why? Playing with gain around 10-11 oclock.

3) Does anyone wire 1 of the drivers reverse polarity?

4) All my drivers are facing the wall, about 1-2 inches out. One of them is corner loaded. Just initially set them this way, I know the instructions/procedures, but I wanted to see performance by just dropping them in place based on my room diagram, Jim gave me positioning based on that. Thoughts?

5) SA1000 thumps on shut down, gain control all the way down. Preamp feeding it had been set to an unused input, 0 volume. Not sure I like that. Shouldn't do this?

This DBA system integrates very smoothly, and does not smear the mains. In fact it compliments them much more then other subs I've tried.

Thanks for the help.


hleeid OP
219 posts
 
@dnicolCongrats on the Swarm!
Yes, the DBA does integrate very smoothly.  By far the best subwoofer solution I have experienced.
I will try my best at this using quotes from Duke LeJeune (Swarm DBA inventor):
1) Sealed mode is generally better for smaller rooms, and ported mode is generally better for large and/or open-floorplan rooms. I use one sub ported (the one that's in a front corner) and the other three are sealed, and the sealed sub in the very back of the room is in reverse polarity – just to give an example.
My room is 14 x 17 and this is what I do.

2) As a general ballpark starting point, I suggest the parametric EQ controls be set for minimum effect: Frequency at 18, Bandwidth at .1, and Level at 0, or about 2:00 on the dial. On the low-pass filter controls, set the Phase at 0, and again as a ballpark starting point, you might try Frequency between 8:00 and 9:00, and Gain at perhaps 10:00. On the back of the amp, turn the Subsonic Filter ON for now (and consider keeping it on if you listen to vinyl), and turn the Bass Boost OFF if you plan to use the subs mostly or all ported, and ON if you plan to use them mostly or all sealed. These are ballpark suggestions just to get you started. You will have a lot of power and output capability on tap, and there is no combination of settings that will overdrive the woofers unless you hit them with very high power signals below 18 Hz in vented mode with the subsonic filter disengaged.

I also follow this but have left phase at 0.
I also found the need to alter the gain depending on the mains I run (higher with efficient speakers).
3) - See response to 1)

4) I have 2 subs elevated, each one an inch from the wall and facing the ceiling. The floor subs are an inch from the walls but only because I face them parallel to the walls.  Otherwise at least 3 inches clearance is advised.
5) I had 2 Daytons thump on shutdown. One was a refurbished unit. The other was brand new.  Still working with Parts Express on this.Will let you know what happens.
Do you hear a mechanical buzz from your Dayton?
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