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Why do you guys pursue a flat frequency response when you buy a subwoofer?

As we all know, most audiophiles spend a fortune for that flat frequency response displayed on the manufacturer's specs when you buy a subwoofer. Why do you do this? The minute you put that flat sub in your room and take some measurements, it is anything but flat (it's a rollercoaster with all kinds of peaks/nulls etc, EQ to the rescue).....So, why do you dudes continue to look for the flat line? What's going on in your mind when you're shopping around?
deep_333
erik_squires
16,202 posts
 

Is my perception right or wrong gentlemen?

I think you are more or less right, though I come at it differently in my blog post. You almost tie it all together like I have and state that a subwoofer is like another driver in a speaker system, and that to integrate it well to the speaker is as complicated as making a multi-way speaker system.

And this is why my usual advice is to think about exactly what steps you'll need to get to "done."  The easiest answers are preamps and processors with automatic subwoofer configuration, usually a component of room correction, along with appropriate room treatment.

I do believe that the difficulty in integrating a subwoofer is usually under-sold.

You are also perceptive about how big the gap is between home theater and 2 channel in this regard. While 2 channel systems vary greatly, THX specified waaaaay back in the early days of Dolby Pro-Logic, sealed, 80 Hz cabinets for small satellites specifically to address part of this problem. 

Subwoofers are marvelous, glorious tools, but getting to done for the average music lover is just a lot harder than consumers and probably many salespeople realize.  OTOH, let's face it, 90% of those who buy subs aren't actually trained listeners.  They may be perfectly happy with poorly set up subs.  I know I tried to be for a long time with my first M&K V1.

Best,

E
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,853 posts
 

For the sake of clarity and accuracy, Brian Ding is the designer/owner of Rythmik Audio. He designed and has made all the Rythmik plate amps and woofer drivers, including those Danny Richie uses in his subs. Danny is the designer owner of GR Research, known primarily for his open baffle loudspeaker DIY kits, though he also offers sealed designs and subs (see below).

The confusion exists because Brian and Danny have collaborated on two do-developed products:

1- The 12" woofer is available in two versions: the "standard", with an aluminum cone, and the "G" (for GR Research), with a paper cone. Danny took Brian’s 12" woofer and integrated his own paper cone, which he prefers to aluminum. If you want the Rythmik F12 Sub, buy it from Brian, the F12G from Danny.

2- The Rythmik Audio/GR Research OB/Dipole Subwoofer. Co-developed by Brian and Danny. It uses Brian’s Servo-Feedback A370 plate amp, with a dipole cancellation-compensation shelving circuit also designed by Brian installed. Danny took the 12" paper cone woofer and optimized it for OB use. The OB/Dipole Sub (available in several versions) is more Danny’s baby than Brian’s. It is available as a kit only, sold by both Rythmik Audio and GR Research. The OB/Dipole Sub flat pack kits (that the woofers are mounted into) are available through Danny/GRR.

audioman58's avatar
audioman58
4,192 posts
 
If you wan5 fast responses check out the Svs 3000 or ultra 16 
they have 52 bit processors built in and monitor any variations 
in milliseconds and are superb with split shaft voice coils Great app and a bunch of other things including free shipping 
and 45 day satisfaction or full money back . I hav3 the SB 3000
for $995 or 2 for $1900 delivered. It best my $1700 JL audio sub 
and beat any Rel it is the only great sub with an app the split pole voice coil works only 5he inner part at low volume which is very tunefull, when more power is needed uses the larger outer part 
of the voice coil and goes down to a true 18 HZ.
deep_333 OP
1,459 posts
 
@audiokinesis , Many hardcore audiophiles i know stick with 2 channel music systems, a.k.a, their high end turntables, DACs, integrated amps/monoblocks, etc with no bass management. These guys try subs and abandon them because they can't get it to integrate right. Many of them buy RELs because it is "supposed to" integrate better (tribal hearsay). But, when they realize that the RELs were hype but lame on delivery, they abandoned them as well.  I sure would not want to add another adc/dac into the chain with a subpar DAC on something like miniDSP for bass management (when i have a Denafrips DAC in my 2 channel setup). Guys i know have waaaay more expensive speakers, DACs, monoblocks, etc on their 2 channel music setups than i do. They are probably not gonna do that either. It's almost like there's a huge disconnect here.

But, of course, once you taste the ecstasy of a well-integrated sub, it's really hard to go back to music without one.  I often find myself listening more in my room1 with active bass management (on my Yam A3080 receiver with the Jungson Class A preouts) than in my 2.2 room2 setup. There may be room for improvement or i may never get there with the tools I have in hand for room2. 

This might be a gross assumption. But, i think some of these 2 channel guys have waaay more cash to throw at a sub manufacturer than the average guy buying a sub for his hometheater. So, It may be a loaded market chunk which is out there i.e., if a manufacturer chooses to tap into it and cater to their systems better (monopoly for sure). More DOFs or.... whatever the R&D/solution may be to better integrate them...you would know better. 
bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,853 posts
 

Further clarification:

Rythmik Audio sells both the F12 and F12G as fully assembled subs.

GR Research sells the F12G sub---as they do all their products---as a DIY/Kit only, which includes a Rythmik Audio plate amp and Danny's paper-cone version of the 12" woofer. You either make or have made a 1.5-2.0 cu.ft enclosure, or buy one of the nice subwoofer flat packs Parts Express sells.

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