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is it possible to make digital audio sound like vintage vinyl

sam here with another question. is it possible to make digital audio sound like vintage vinyl ? i realize i'm gonna get ripped a new a-hole however this is not a joke question. honest answers please i can take the heat

as crazy as it sounds it seams perfectly logical to me. now here is what i did using my 2013 dell pc windows 7 32bit.

using foobar 2000 with the convolver dsp filter i made an impulse file consisting of a 1 second wave file extracted at 32 / 88 

from the intro to pink floyds us and them on 1st press vintage vinyl u.k harvest label. just the surface noise before the music 

starts and applied the impulse file to a digital album to see if the digital album now sounds like vintage vinyl.here's the results

not sure if i made the digital audio sound worse or really what i achieved ? feedback will help me decide if i should

abandoned this pipe dream and move on. source is digital download flac 16/44 same source for both before/after samples.

audio sample 1: http://pc.cd/GB3

audio sample 2 (impulse applied) http://pc.cd/7eA

audio sample 3: http://pc.cd/7DP7

audio sample 4 (impulse applied) http://pc.cd/bw2

audio sample 5: http://pc.cd/3etrtalK

audio sample 6 (impulse applied) http://pc.cd/lTf7
guitarsam
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,948 posts
 
No, you don’t. The s/n, FR, and resolution of a hi-res digital file far exceeds that which can be pressed to LP. No information is "discarded."
This statement is problematic. LPs since the 1960s have had bandwidth to 40KHz and beyond- I suspect that is one reason they are still around, as they have the widest bandwidth of any format.


Recent advances in pressing technology (mostly at QRP) have allowed the pressings to be considerably lower noise, rivaling Redbook. Most of the surface noise of an LP is produced during pressing; almost  none from mastering.


Phono sections themselves can be responsible for ticks and pops without the help of the LP; this is due to poor HF overload margins; and that due to the fact that many designers don't take into account the simple fact that cartridges are inductors and tonearm cables have capacitance. If your phono section can't deal with the resulting resonance, it can make ticks and pops independently of the LP surface.


Tradeoffs, but not 'far exceeds'...
heaudio123
689 posts
 
I am still going to go with "far exceeds". Note I used hi-res digital as my comparison point:
  • 24/192 sampled is capable of 80KHz bandwidth at 3db. Practically no one is going beyond 40Khz.
  • While LPs "may" have bandwidth out to 40Khz, the best cartridges are down what 30? 40db?  Some of the best "rated" cartridges are down that much at 30KHz (or less)
  • Those 1960's LPs, what was the bandwidth of the tape machines feeding them at 40KHz. Combine that with cartridge frequency response.
  • That high frequency response also comes about via RIAA equalization, i.e. pre-emphasis on high frequencies
  • There is, to my knowledge, not one valid example of human's being able to perceive in any form, frequencies over about 22-24Khz. Those frequencies can cause subharmonic distortion of speakers though. That 22-24Khz is for young ears too.
  • While QRP is impressive, it's still not remotely in the range of 24/192, especially if you rolled off the bandwidth of 24/192 to match vinyl.

That RIAA equalization is of course akin to "compression", akin to basic Dolby noise reduction.

As has been pointed out, digital copies of vinyl can be nearly indistinguishable if not indistinguishable from the direct vinyl output. I don't think anyone would say vinyl sounds like digital though, not even if the mastering is exactly the same.


The big variable is crosstalk, and even that varies considerably from system to system and out of phase crosstalk can do some interesting things acoustically.

I personally don't think the OP is on the right track for recreating vinyl from digital. My main impression of the applied filter the op uses is reverb, which will give a more 3 dimensional feel to the music, a not uncommon mixing and mastering technique. However, I don't think the exercise of recreating vinyl from digital is unwarranted. One can consider something like crosstalk a format limitation, but one could also consider it a mathematical function that may be beneficial.
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cleeds
6,012 posts
 
atmasphere
LPs since the 1960s have had bandwidth to 40KHz and beyond- I suspect that is one reason they are still around, as they have the widest bandwidth of any format.
Ralph, I’m really surprised to see you say that. There’s no way you can get 40 kHz from analog tape at 0 VU - that’s why FR specs for analog tape are always done well below 0 VU ... usually -10 dB for reel, iirc, and -20 dB for cassette. So if you want the best, pure-analog LP, you have to live with the limitations of tape. Hi-res digital can easily be flat out to 40 kHz and beyond.
Recent advances in pressing technology (mostly at QRP) have allowed the pressings to be considerably lower noise, rivaling Redbook. Most of the surface noise of an LP is produced during pressing; almost none from mastering.
You’ll get no argument from me there. As I’ve said, I’m an analog guy. Typically, I prefer LP to digital.

I think it’s important to keep perspective, and to claim that the resolution or performance limits of LP exceed that of the best digital just isn’t supported by the numbers. On the other hand, many of the potential technical advantages offered by digital far exceed that required by the music. For example, the LP has restricted dynamic range compared to digital, but that’s of no consequence with most recordings. And it’s the same with channel separation and with w&f ...



aniwolfe
761 posts
 
What I do to make my digital sound like vintage vinyl is....While playing my favorite digital music, I pour a bowl of Rice Krispies, add milk and place the bowl next to my ear. Give it a try :)
apdxyk
20 posts
 
Imperfections can be beautiful. Old Masters knew that very well. Go to England, visit City of Wells, enjoy the Cathedral. Yuri Norstein, a famous animated cartoons maker, asked his primary artist to use her weak hand for certain scenes and frames - he asked for an imperfect line there ('Hedgehog in the Fog' on youtube). Art Nouveau was very much influenced by Japanese art of the day, and Japanese appreciate a good imperfection here and there. Americans cannot stand imperfection, that's why the ratio of churches to orthodontists' offices is close to 1 (at least, in California) 
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