Vinyl / High qual analog tape / High-res digital -- One of these is not like the other


One common theme I read on forums here and elsewhere is the view by many that there is a pecking order in quality:

Top - High Quality Analog TapeNext - VinylBottom - Digital

I will go out on a limb and say that most, probably approaching almost all those making the claim have never heard a really good analog tape machine and high resolution digital side by side, and have certainly never heard what comes out the other end when it goes to vinyl, i.e. heard the tape/file that went to the cutter, then compared that to the resultant record?

High quality analog tape and high quality digital sound very similar. Add a bit of hiss (noise) to digital, and it would be very difficult to tell which is which. It is not digital, especially high resolution digital that is the outlier, it is vinyl. It is different from the other two.  Perhaps if more people actually experienced this, they would have a different approach to analog/vinyl?

This post has nothing to do with personal taste. If you prefer vinyl, then stick with it and enjoy it. There are reasons why the analog processing that occurs in the vinyl "process" can result in a sound that pleases someone. However, knowledge is good, and if you are set in your ways, you may be preventing the next leap.
roberttdid
Wow, three turntables and $160k in digital hardware? Do you mind me asking what you do for a living Mike?
i’m about to retire from managing a car dealership. it took 25 years to build up my system. a little each year. hifi is my way of coping with daily job stress.

I care to differ a little. I was busy typing my last post when yours was added. It is not that digital is missing something. It is that something is added to vinyl. I have several direct to disc albums and it is interesting to note that they sound more like Hi Res digital files than other records.
i cannot argue that the analog process is without any artifacts. OTOH digital absolutely misses things objectively, and by degrees. and the musical experience equation is much more diminished by what is missing from digital, even the very best digital, compare to anything added to the very best analog. been comparing the best of each 30 hours a week for decades. just how it sounds to me and my visitors.

if we take analog out of the discussion, digital music, at it’s best today, is objectively, completely, wonderful and satisfying. missing nothing. but on forums people like to bring up analog....so we do this dance. i don’t start threads like this. but sometimes i finish them.

I certainly agree that digital is more convenient. How could you not? I can’t listen to classical playlists streaming or otherwise. I just can’t enjoy it as background music. I have to sit in front of the system for classical.
there is a multi-task component to my listening which is unavoidable. but my 30 hours a week is time spent in my 2 channel dedicated room. so i might have classical playing while i’m reading or web surfing. the music competing for my attention. with analog there are no distractions, the music is too compelling. not that the digital cannot also be compelling.....and it too can demand i pay complete attention....just not as consistently.

Ideally digital and analog should sound exactly the same. If they don’t something is happening in the signal path or master to alter the original recording. What sounds better I suspect is a matter of taste more than anything.
filtering a musical signal through a math equation is not without a cost. on a forum here we can debate this. if we were both sitting in my room the debate would be very very short. a note or two likely, but sometimes a dozen cuts are needed to get it. i’ve had that experience dozens of times. my yard is littered with the bones of former digital zealots.....now reborn.
my yard is littered with the bones of former digital zealots.....now reborn.
:)


I think that it is possible to fool the ears but no so the soul with mathematical artefact at the end..... Case closed....We can approximate the sound but not the soul.... A great Jazz musician says about the African rhythm drum music, that this music always wheeled over, that can be feeled and not so easily reproduced.... :)

I will go on with my modest digital set-up tough but I will not dig your graveyard for my own tomb stone....

I dont think that digital lack something in particular, especially if rightly embedded, except that it is a mathematical approximation of the phenomenal analog qualia, be it the closest you can, it lack nothing in particular but it is not the same.... :)


But in most ordinary audio systems with regular source, I dont think that this difference is clearly perceptible.... I know I make the test.... And we cannot choose between the 2 my friend and i.....


What digital miss is in truth mikelavigne audio system..... :)
mikelavigne
... digital absolutely misses things objectively, and by degrees. and the musical experience equation is much more diminished by what is missing from digital, even the very best digital, compare to anything added to the very best analog.
This could be true, and it’s sometimes how digital sounds to me. So please tell us @mikelavigne : What is digital objectively missing?
This is an awesome discussion. Much appreciated.

@mikelavigne: in your opinion is there value today in SACD versus the highest quality digital streams from Tidal or Qobuz? If so, do you expect that to be the case in a couple of years? I hope this is not a stupid question. I am asking because I am contemplating getting an SACD player if there is an improvement to be had in sound quality over digital streaming for my 10-30% of time I’d be willing to listen to it over streaming. For point of reference, I have an all-digital system with total msrp in the low $20k’s (speakers, amps, source, cables included), if that impacts the answer. Thanks!
kren0006
@mikelavigne: in your opinion is there value today in SACD versus the highest quality digital streams ...  I am asking because I am contemplating getting an SACD player if there is an improvement to be had in sound quality over digital streaming ...
With all due respect to Mike, that's a decision I think can best be made by you. Why not borrow a player from your dealer and arrive at your own conclusion?