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Vinyl / High qual analog tape / High-res digital -- One of these is not like the other

One common theme I read on forums here and elsewhere is the view by many that there is a pecking order in quality:

Top - High Quality Analog TapeNext - VinylBottom - Digital

I will go out on a limb and say that most, probably approaching almost all those making the claim have never heard a really good analog tape machine and high resolution digital side by side, and have certainly never heard what comes out the other end when it goes to vinyl, i.e. heard the tape/file that went to the cutter, then compared that to the resultant record?

High quality analog tape and high quality digital sound very similar. Add a bit of hiss (noise) to digital, and it would be very difficult to tell which is which. It is not digital, especially high resolution digital that is the outlier, it is vinyl. It is different from the other two.  Perhaps if more people actually experienced this, they would have a different approach to analog/vinyl?

This post has nothing to do with personal taste. If you prefer vinyl, then stick with it and enjoy it. There are reasons why the analog processing that occurs in the vinyl "process" can result in a sound that pleases someone. However, knowledge is good, and if you are set in your ways, you may be preventing the next leap.
roberttdid
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,197 posts
 
my yard is littered with the bones of former digital zealots.....now reborn.
:)


I think that it is possible to fool the ears but no so the soul with mathematical artefact at the end..... Case closed....We can approximate the sound but not the soul.... A great Jazz musician says about the African rhythm drum music, that this music always wheeled over, that can be feeled and not so easily reproduced.... :)

I will go on with my modest digital set-up tough but I will not dig your graveyard for my own tomb stone....

I dont think that digital lack something in particular, especially if rightly embedded, except that it is a mathematical approximation of the phenomenal analog qualia, be it the closest you can, it lack nothing in particular but it is not the same.... :)


But in most ordinary audio systems with regular source, I dont think that this difference is clearly perceptible.... I know I make the test.... And we cannot choose between the 2 my friend and i.....


What digital miss is in truth mikelavigne audio system..... :)
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cleeds
6,021 posts
 
mikelavigne
... digital absolutely misses things objectively, and by degrees. and the musical experience equation is much more diminished by what is missing from digital, even the very best digital, compare to anything added to the very best analog.
This could be true, and it’s sometimes how digital sounds to me. So please tell us @mikelavigne : What is digital objectively missing?
kren0006
1,859 posts
 
This is an awesome discussion. Much appreciated.

@mikelavigne: in your opinion is there value today in SACD versus the highest quality digital streams from Tidal or Qobuz? If so, do you expect that to be the case in a couple of years? I hope this is not a stupid question. I am asking because I am contemplating getting an SACD player if there is an improvement to be had in sound quality over digital streaming for my 10-30% of time I’d be willing to listen to it over streaming. For point of reference, I have an all-digital system with total msrp in the low $20k’s (speakers, amps, source, cables included), if that impacts the answer. Thanks!
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cleeds
6,021 posts
 
kren0006
@mikelavigne: in your opinion is there value today in SACD versus the highest quality digital streams ...  I am asking because I am contemplating getting an SACD player if there is an improvement to be had in sound quality over digital streaming ...
With all due respect to Mike, that's a decision I think can best be made by you. Why not borrow a player from your dealer and arrive at your own conclusion?
cd318
2,636 posts
 
roberttdid,

You're right, it was more of an anecdotal impression of the various formats from Steve Hoffman than any clearly defined conclusion. Still interesting in itself.

I tend to respect his work because he claims his mission is to restore rather remix historic recordings, rather like an art restorer approaching period masterpieces.

Anyway, damn it! It seems as if DSD is no better than PCM, especially when it's not DSD all the way, which it hardly ever is.

On the other hand, it could equally be argued that in practice PCM is just as good as DSD but that's not what most of us were hoping for is it?

According to the Ben Zwickel's Mojo Audio article (linked below) it's still the recording that counts the most.

Just as it ever was.

As for the odd one out between tape, digital and vinyl, it's not tape, and it's not digital, so...

https://www.mojo-audio.com/blog/dsd-vs-pcm-myth-vs-truth/#:~:text=DSD%20recordings%20are%20commercia....
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