Vinyl / High qual analog tape / High-res digital -- One of these is not like the other

Hi, never mind no R2R can do it. Btw, the 820 has very poor spec performance: at 30ips its frequency response is only from 40hz to 22khz with a swing deviation of 4db. and its noise level is around 73db. The very old digital recorder Soundstream is way way better: there is no contest in between. ATR machines have a littlebetter specs but nothing to " die for ".

I know that as almost always specs can't tell the whole history but a good part of that history. Along that is the eq. need it ( NAB/IEC/CIIR ) like the vinyl RIAA.

Btw, @atmasphere you always say that vinyl frequency response recorded information goes around 50khz ( at least is what I remember you posted in other threads. ), if you please this is a question: from where came LP recorded frequencies over 28khz when tape recorders can't handled? D2D can do it but tape recorded sourced analog LPs?. I know that I have a high ignorance levels in the analog LP recording process and I would like to learn a little about. Thank's and appreciated.

Today ADC/DACs are extremely good even that several audiophiles vote for the analog machines.

Mike was very specific on what is missing through digital, my experiences as the ones from cleeds and other gentlemans are different but I don't own a R2R unit but analog and digital LPs and CDP/analog rig.

Seems to me that objectivity is inclined by digital when subjectivity for audiophiles go a little inclined for analog. Good that exist both alternatives with one of both in full development: the best time is coming for digital technology not only in audio but in several other world items.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

https://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/10-things-we-dont-miss-about-old-studios
@rauliruegas 
https://youtu.be/v0bMI2JB-vY

https://www.vox.com/2014/4/19/5626058/vinyls-great-but-its-not-better-than-cds

Dear @djones51 : Thank’s for the very good links. Here one posted by @cleeds in other thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIQ9IXSUzuM

Problem with LP audiophiles is that are severely biased with the " nice " developed distortions/colorations and with the true missed recorded signal that never can be recovered.
Many of them are only sound lovers but not real MUSIC lovers as they think are.

They always speak of that " warmth, swetness, nuances " and the like adjectives that just do not exist in a near field live MUSIC that is the position where recording microphones are.

Several times I already explained step by step facts that impede the cartridge stylus tip can pick up all the recorded information and in the other side explained all the distortions developed at each single link in the LP playback process that’s is a nigthmare for say the least.
I explained all what happens at microscopic levels between the stylus tip ridding the grooves but almost all are " deaf " not even try to understand it " things "/facts that are just common sense. No they insist that digital is the experience that is missing a lot of information and developing distortions they do not like.

I tell those audiophiles that they need to listen a trumpet player seated at 2-3m. from him or with a piano player seated nearfield where the players been playing at live event SPL and then they will learn that MUSIC is all but warmth or sweet or the like: MUSIC has natural agresivenees, natural brigthness, dynamic power, even strident, with full rythm, wake up every kind of feeelings/emotions, , etc, etc.

What in true are missing those fake MUSIC lovers with digital? they are missing all the LP developed huge distortions ( read: warmth, swetness, etc, etc. ) and listening the recorded information they missed with the LP playback process.
Well, all of them are accustomed for 20-40 years to listen those " nice distortions ", they brain tells that if in digital does not exist those " nice distortions " then is wrong.

Bass range is the MUSIC foundation and no LP analog bass can compare with the digital true bass kind of sound.
MUSIC is and means accuracy ( not analythical. ), its notes has an accurate " order " as it has too its harmonics. LP experience is totally non-accurated it can’t be accurated when in all pivoted tonearms exist a tracking error that precludes per sé accuracy about and the inverse RIAA eq. can’t mimic the RIAA eq. from the recording process but not only that becaiuse in a CD there is no RIAA and the recording and playback processses are accurate. In digital does not exist the skipping of the stylus tip during grooves tracking.

Coming back to the bass frequency range, the better this range the better the overall listening experiences and analog can’t compete with digital in this sole characteristic.
Even with digital recorded LPs we can listen the difference in the bass range and its superiority over the non-digital recorded LPs.

Years ago I was exactly as all them till I had my first near field live MUSIC event, I learned from that very first time and followed learning attending to more nearfield seated live events..

I’m not biased to digital I’m biased to the MUSIC and listen MUSIC through LPs or digital alternative.

We don’t need scientific studies to understand the digital/analog differences in favor of digital, what we need is just common sense in an open non-biased brain/attitude.

Easy.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

I forgot on that bass range this thread I started several years ago:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/do-you-think-you-need-a-subwoofer/post?postid=310058#310058

@raul
My first nearfield live music event was years ago when I played trumpet. Now I just fool around with a mountain dulcimer.

Live events and a live instrument is one kind of experience; a cd or a vinyl are other experiences....Is it necessary to preach with engineering numbers the sacred truth of  the digital gospel? Is it realist to ask a cd, a vinyl, or a files or a tape, to reproduce the lived event totally? Each one will do his job with his own means and biases.... 


For me I accept the differences, and I live with them for what they are , a world in itself, not reducible, with his positives and negatives....



I listen to an organ opus of Bach right now, it will be different with a cd, a files, a vinyl, or with Tidal, with various tape recorder, or in a church live on a particular organ.... Why debating about the "truth" ? There is no truth here, except the particular advantages of each experiences.... My grain of salt.... :)


Electronical components and materials and mediums are not sounds, and sounds are not music, they lack the consciousness living the musical experience that will interpret these sounds, recreating them in the mind-body in the form of a synesthesic complexes of gestures, movements, emotions, ideas and perceptions....

Music is the relation between sounds and these synesthesic complexes....Music is not the faithfulness to an alleged " objective truth" about the reproduction of sound....

Too many concrete factors are also implicated to debate that seriously....Never mind the electronic components used, vinyl or tape or cd etc, their embeddings plays the more fundamental role in the final listening experience... Not one audio system sound the same....Is it then possible to decide the "truth" in the abstract, with only engineering numbers to take the decision? Asking the question is the answering.... :)


A final note: Someone can decide for himself, with his own system, be it very refined, but at the end his testimony is an interesting fact with which we can partake or not.... But this is a relative truth not an absolute truth....Mikelavigne for example has spoken about his own experience and his particular audio system in his particular house, and this gives matter to think...But anyone of us live with other system, other houses, and other tastes, and other past experiences etc....