How to accurately gauge speaker sensitivity to match with tube amp?


I'm in the process of matching speakers to my amplifier and need a bit of advice. Most recently, I'm trying Focal 936 towers with my Quicksilver Mono 60w amp. They were sounding pretty decent until I experimented by hooking up my old Adcom 535L amp. All of a sudden, there was a giant jump in control, tautness in the bass, quickness in transients. The QS stuff was doing quite decently, but the Adcom really snapped these towers to attention. The mids and high ends, not to mention the soundstage, were worse with the Adcom — no question. But there was quite a difference with the other qualities just mentioned.

My question becomes one of sensitivity. The Focals self-rated as 92 db. Stereophile rated them as 89.5db. I realize that these are average measurements and a much bigger picture is told by the impedance graph (and other factors).

As I continue to search for the right match of speaker (I have a couple contenders), I'm sure one piece of advice is to look for speakers with higher sensitivity averages. But what else should I look for to help make a guesstimate about whether the amp will drive the speakers with the kind of control they are capable of? [Specs for this amp are here: http://quicksilveraudio.com/products/sixty-watt-mono-amp/ ]

I realize I need to hear speakers, in my house, with my gear, etc. to get a sense of them. I’m working in exactly this way. Your advice can help me eliminate candidate speakers that would pose similar challenges to my amp as these Focals have.

And I just bought the amp, so I don't want to change it.

Thank you for any thoughts. 

P.S. Anyone who has has had great success with this amp or similar, please shout it out.


128x128hilde45
You asked ?But what else should I look for to help make a guesstimate about whether the amp will drive the speakers with the kind of control they are capable of?" 

This is a great question and I recently received an e-mail from the Audionote dealer in India, regarding the same question. The email was called "What Are Tube Friendly Loudspeakers?"

There detailed explanation was the best I've seen to date it unravels how to read those stereophile graphs of frequency vs impedance vs phase angle. 

Contact Audionote India, if you want a decent explanation
Audio Note India <info@audionote.in>

Chees Johno

The absolute impedance means little if you have appropriate taps on your transformers. What does matter is:
1. How far the speaker’s impedance deviates from its nominal value (and where and how steep the dips and peaks are). Nasties in the bass region are a real no no.
2. What phase angles they generate (and where). Tube amps are generally less tolerant of speakers with high phase angles (where the voltage waveform is no longer in phase with the current demands) than well designed solid state alternatives.
Some fairly low sensitivity speakers with moderate impedance curves and phase angles can sound quite decent with tube amps if you’re not into Motorhead. If you are I would suggest looking at 92db+. They sound really excellent on Klipsch Quartets with only 35W on tap.
Thanks @pesky. 1 and 2 on your list sound like the key, here. “How far” the deviance is, and for how wide a range it spans, seem like the key to making a guesstimate. Erik gave some clue in his comment above. I am now searching the web for the meaning of phase angle beyond what you stated to see how that might be applied to my search. Came up with this so far:
https://www.dhtrob.com/overige/tubefriendly_lsp_en.php
I'm not sure how good the information is, but will try to cross-check.

Thanks johno...will look for that email exchange.
From the link above [ https://www.dhtrob.com/overige/tubefriendly_lsp_en.php ] this seems helpful:

"[F] the purposes of determining tube-friendliness, sensitivity is essentially meaningless. Many tube gurus insist that one must use speakers with sensitivity ratings of 90 db or higher. This is simply not true. Many speakers with high sensitivity ratings are poor choices for tube amps, just as many speakers with low sensitivity ratings often work quite well….

Tubes like a resistive load - it’s really that simple….[F]rom a tube’s point of view is as follows: tubes like consistency. They prefer a speaker that doesn’t swing from 8 ohms to 2 ohms and back again….Tubes don’t like to pump out current at the drop of a hat. They prefer a consistent and predictable load.

Naturally it is sometimes difficult for speaker manufacturers to keep all the aforementioned variables in their ideal ranges. If phase angles must be capacitive, impedance should be high. The lower the impedance, the flatter it must be, and the less capacitive the phase angles must be. All three variables (slope of impedance, value of impedance, value of phase angle) together determine how good a match a speaker will be for a tube amp.

For this reason, the argument that only speakers with an impedance of 8 ohms or higher will work on tubes is incorrect. There are many tube friendly speakers whose nominal impedance is 4 ohms. If the speaker’s impedance is relatively flat and consistently hovers around 4 ohms, and if the phase angles are only slightly capacitive, or better yet inductive, there is no reason why a 4 ohm speaker cannot perform well on a tube amplifier. Some of our favorite tube friendly speakers are 4 ohms!"

The article concludes by affirming that both metrics matter AND listening matters:

"You can easily tell if a speaker isn’t performing well on tubes by... listening to it! Certainly we encourage you to gather as much data as possible such that you don’t waste your time auditioning speakers which are clearly not appropriate choices for tubes, but when it comes down to it folks the only way to find the right speaker is to listen to it anyway. A speaker that doesn’t perform well on tubes will typically be characterized by one or more of the following sonic traits when connected to a tube amp:
  • Dual-mono imaging, i.e. the speakers do not "disappear"
  • Unusually poor imaging or soundstaging
  • Lumpy, bloated, or "one note" bass
  • Lack of control in the bass - excessive boominess or thumpiness
  • A "suckout" in the midrange
  • Whenever the bass kicks in, the mids go away
  • Whenever the bass kicks in, the highs get harsh and strained
  • When you hook the speaker up to a solid state amp, the bass gets tighter, the midrange comes back, and the highs mellow out"
The last bullet point here tells me that the Focals are a bad match BOTH for my solid state AND my tubes -- because the Focal's bass sound mediocre on my tubes, and while the solid state tightens up the bass, the mids get grainy and the highs get harsh.
@atmasphere 
Great suggestion on the Zeros.
Paul allows free audition and return.
MIGHT be the cheapest way to have the cake AND the icing.
I'd call Mike first see what he thinks.