Buying a new TT today

The engineers have told me that it really depends how much you want to spend. To get a quality direct drive that limits vibration due to the motor being directly underneath, you need to spend at least $3k, if not $5k. Originally I was way under that, under $2k and was told by everyone ( and i mean the real scientists and dealers that carry both), hands down belt drive over direct drive at that price point. It’s worth revisiting for me now...

Did your scientists ever heard about Technics SP-10mkII, Denon DP-80, Victor TT-101 turntables ? They are all under $1500 and all of them have superb Direct Drive motors, different but all good. They are all in best buy category today.

Try to find anything better than Denon DP-80 for the price you can get it for (in mint condition), simply amazing.

For higher price we could add Kenwood L07D, Luxman PD444, Pioneer P3 or P10, Technics SP-10 mk3 ...

When someone telling us you have to spend at least .... i wish to know what does that mean ? You can spend much more on the worst turntables ever if you don’t know where to find and what to find.

The best Direct Drive are from Japan and from the 80’s. Prices on used market is way different than retail prices on the shops, it’s another world, parallel reality. Someone will tell you you have to spend $1000 for phono cable or interconnect, but you can buy same cable used for $300 online.

Don’t forget there is a Direct Drive motor under the Neumann cutting Lathe. They cut on Direct Drive. This is where your record get started, and you know somehow there is nothing bad coming from the motor under the platter to the cutter stylus and the lacquer cut on constant speed. Every lacquer disc must be approved by the producer/musician before the label will send the master disc to the pressing plant, then there will be a test press for final approval.

Direct Drive is reference technology, all those Direct CUT made using direct drive motor. This happens when signal from the mics goes throught the mixing console to the cutterheard direct on disc. There is a Direct Drive motor under that disc.

We can learn more about Direct Drive motors made for Cutting Lathe, the Technics SP-02 is only one of them.

P.S. thanks to jpjones for posting those pages in his blog.

I went from a ProJect Debut (2M Blue) which sounded good to me to a Technics SL1200GR with Nagaoka MP-150 and its really nice.

The Nag has none of the rising top end of the red/blue 2M carts and great bass. Very happy and look forward to upgrading the Nag after a phono upgrade happens.

Hey AJ, - personally, I would look at other cartridges. I know Rega is giving you a good deal by combining them, but look at it this way: does anyone ever buy a Rega cartridge for a non-Rega turntable? Probably not. How 'bout the arms? You bet - plus they OEM them for other tables as well.

The Sound Organisation (Rega US distributor) has the P10/Alpheta 3 shown for $7700. If you can get it for $6695, that sounds like a deal - only $1000 for the cartridge. Logically, it should be $6995. $4395 for the P8 combo is charging $1300 for the cartridge.

I love my Sutherland Insight, but maybe the Rega Aria Phono stage is worth considering for $1500 if you're getting the Alpheta 3. I've heard some good things about it, and I am sure it is perfectly set for the Alpheta. Sutherland 20/20 is supposedly great, but I bought a used Insight for $875 and Ron Sutherland (great guy) sent me the linear power supply upgrade package for the $350 upgrade price (I installed it and he said he would do it for free but i would have had to pay back and forth shipping), so it was less than half the price of the 20/20 combo, and it was my first phono stage and I was skeptical about their value. Ask your stereo guy what he thinks about the Aria. I hate to take business away from Ron, but I think it is worth considering. I think I saw a used Aria for $1000 on Audiogon when I was searching for the Insight.

Sorry for muddying the waters, but I wonder if the guy will let you try the P10 also so you can see if it the difference is worth it to you. I am sure it sounds better. When I got the P8's arm, the home listening was what sold me. I wasn't given it as a trial, but was told I could return it if I didn't like it. With my maneuvering I was able to be all in for the complete analogue rig for under $5K (P8/Insight wLPS/Van den hul One Special). With your P10/2020 combo, you're looking at almost double. Maybe it's worth it...but it would be about what I spent on my entire system.

Depends how much you want to jump around to save some cash. I think I've bought one or two components from every high end dealer in my area that is knowledgeable, some new, some used. If you can get a dealer to sell you something used he can attest to, and it is reasonably priced, that is the best of both worlds. Don't let the dealer intimidate you into overpaying or overbuying or feeling guilty about not buying a high enough level product. Remember - there is ALWAYS something better out there. Sometimes these guys act like they're doing you a favor by selling you exclusive pieces. These days there is no such thing as exclusivity. Everyone is hungry for business. My go to guy will give me 15% off at a minimum. (He is not a Rega dealer - doesn't want to carry their entire line).

I am a big Rega fan and don't know too much about Direct Drive tables other than my experience I mentioned in an earlier post with the Phase Linear 8000 which has many motors and sounds nothing like a clean belt drive turntable. Even the $500 Music Hall sounded way better. But like all debates, I don't think it is about the technology, it is about the execution of the individual product/model. I am sure there are great sounding direct drive tables, I just don't know anyone who has one or recommends them other than these guys on Audiogon saying to buy a 30+ year old one.

Hey Chakster - you may be correct about the speed of belt drive tables in general if their power supplies are not great, but on all Rega's mid tables and above, the speed is fine with external PSUs. I have an app that measures it - right on the money for 33 1/3 and 45 rpm speeds.

Wow thx. Good info.  Look at any dealer online that sells Rega,  the P10 is $5,695 and if you get the Apheta 3, its only a $1,000 extra with a total of $6,695. And its installed directly by Rega so its perfect.  The cartridge on its own is $2,000. 

With the usual 10/15 percent dealer discount, the price winds up being around $5,700, not bad with that beefy power supply.  

The 20/20 with LPS , i got a demo for $2k.  So $7,700  all in.  I researched the 20/20, and with the LPS, its supposed to perform as well as his $4k Duo.  The engineers and sales guys I spoke to were pretty much in consensus that the Rega with the Sutherland phono is a better combo than Regas own phono at the same price point.  Even the KC VIBE was preferred over the Aria and thry are definitely making less margin on that advice! 

This is fun.  

Really weird - different Rega dealers have different list prices. From $6700-7700 for the P10, but $4395 for the P8....strange. Sound Organisation included. Rega is a strange company from a marketing/sales standpoint.

If you are sold on the P10, $6695 sounds pretty good. I actually talked to Ron Sutherland a few times when he was helping me out with my upgrade and he mentioned the 20/20 was better than the Insight by a good bit from a materials standpoint, with a bigger difference than between the Little Loco ($3800) and and the 20/20. The power supply on the Loco is the same board as the one I got on the Insight (that recently became available and was only the 3rd person to do that install myself). But the Little Loco is better than the 20/20. The law of diminishing returns....

The LL is a different (I think newer) design that Ron really likes and he kind of mentioned that would be a good next step for me and he would just charge me the price difference - really nice guy, but I'm not going to drop $2K for an upgraded phono stage at this point. Who knows how crazy/obsessed with upgraditis I'll get in the future.

If the dealer is giving you the 20/20 with the LPS for $2K, that's a 25% discount and very good. You'd be at $8700 for the full Rega rig with the 20/20 w/LPS. You said $7700 - if he is giving you another $1000 off, that's an excellent deal. My Rega dealer wouldn't move on price, but I bought in stages with the arm first, and then the table 3-4 months later. I had to twist his arm to sell me the upgraded table for the difference between what I already paid and the P8. It cost me like $365 extra since I didn't get much of a discount $100 (I don't think the dealer knew the actual price was $100 more), but live and learn...I would never have bought the whole P8 at once and paid $2K, bit I got sucked in in stages.

So is he willing to sell you the P8/Alphreta 3 for $3500 (a 15% discount off of the $3095 +$1000)? That would mean $2200 more for the P10 (>60% more). You could get the whole analogue rig for $5500. Depends on what you want to spend. Either way, you can't go wrong.

If you go for the P10, you could be done with the analogue rig and it would be the absolute best part of your system which you wouldn't have to touch until after your speaker and amp upgrades. Just make sure when you buy each piece it is better than (or at least equal to) the rest of the components in your system. You should have an idea about where you want your total investment to be for this plateau. If the P10 fits in (40-50% for the rig) around $15K total, then go for it.