A challenge to the "measurement" camp


I’ve watched some of his video and I actually agree on some of what he said,
but he seems too confident on his insistence on measurement. For those
who expound on the merits of blind test and measurement, why not turn
the table upside down?

Why not do a blind test of measurement? That is I will supply all the measurement
you want, can you tell me which is a better product?

For example, if I have a set of cable, and a set of measurement for each
individual cable, can you tell me which is the best cable based on measurement
alone? I will supply all the measurement you want.
After all, that is what you’re after right? Objective result and not subjective
listening test.

Fast forward to 8:15 mark where he keeps ranting about listening test
without measurement.  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=katmUM-Xelw

By the way, is he getting paid by Belden?  Because he keeps talking about it
and how well it measures.  I've had some BlueJean cables and they can easily
bettered by some decent cables.  
andy2
He wants to talk logically. But then the very next thing he does is commit logical fallacy upon logical fallacy, until within barely a minute he’s talking about "magic cables".

The fact of the matter, as you seem to already know, is many people are indeed able to not only hear differences between cables but evaluate and rank them. Different listeners prefer different cables just as different listeners prefer different amps, cartridges, or speakers. If the alcoholic wanted to talk logically he would talk about how stupid it is to have the big fancy speaker sitting behind him because all his same reasoning applies, and if all wire can be is a tone control then speakers are tone controls on steroids!

But instead he uses the speaker as a prop telling us to respect his "logic" because, speaker.

Seriously though, the "tone control" argument is a giveaway. Tells us that is all he is capable of evaluating. Listening is a skill. Like every skill it can be broken down into little bitty bits. Baseball breaks down into the skills of running, throwing, catching, hitting, etc. Listening breaks down into the skills of volume, frequency, dynamics, tone, harmonics, imaging, timbre, layering, grain, glare, etc.

Only a very partial list of skills but notice I’ve listed them in roughly their order of simplicity. Pretty much anyone can easily hear and tell which volume is louder, which frequency is higher, which thing is more or less dynamic than another, and what tone is open or boxy or bright or dull. These are the low hanging fruit. Pull any random person off the street and ask, they will pick these out no problem.

Harmonics, now its getting a bit harder but still most people can hear the difference between a sine wave and the more complex structure of the same note on a musical instrument. Timbre, the particular harmonic signature of every individual instrument, now its getting harder. A lot less people can hear the difference between a violin and a viola, tenor and alto sax, etc when playing the same note.

Already its getting hard and we’ve barely scratched the surface of listening skills. Grain is the quality of sound that can range from very coarse and etched, to extremely smooth and liquid. Grain changes as components burn in and warm up - but only for those who have developed the skill, the ability to hear and recognize grain.

I’m just getting going. There’s a whole bunch of these sonic character traits people that take forever to explain, and even longer to learn to reliably hear. But once one does develop the requisite skills then hearing these things is child’s play.

Okay now here’s the thing. People like the alcoholic with nothing to say about any of this, people who rely on the crutch of the pathetic "tone control" argument, are telling us more about themselves than anything to do with wire. What they are telling us is, "I can’t hear!" They are telling us they are lousy listeners.

Personally, I am inclined to believe them.
The major failings of the ASR camp are :

1 - The idea that an oscilloscope is a judge of my listening preferences.

2 - The idea that measuring first does not generate observation bias. In fact, it creates it.

3 - The idea that measurements mostly defined by the 1960s capture our hearing.


I also believe that cables are way over priced, and that good room acoustics are a better first investment than any cable, as well as that tone controls are good.

Best,

E
I think it is a waste of time and effort explaining to someone that they are wrong. I just smile at that video and move along.  People who are passionate about wrong opinions are usually driven by fear. That being said, I happen to like Belden and Ken Shindo favored the Belden 9497.  When I played Bass Clarinet, I could hear the difference between the reed I chose though I doubt their measuring devices would have that capability.
There was a great article from stereophile the other day, that finally nailed it to the wall.

Not that most understand the concepts being spoken about.

It comes down to the dynamic aspects of inductance, it seems.

Capacitance? capacitance turned out to be almost meaningless.

Read:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/what-difference-wire-makes

Read right to the end. Bring your molecular level understanding of inductance, capacitance, and resistance along for any comments... as otherwise.. 

~~~~~~~~~~~

There is literally...Teo Audio Liquid metal cables..and...everything else. The gulf is huge and all encompassing, in the complex electrical and complex physics sense. 

The Teo audio cables don’t have their inductance occurring like any other cable in the world. What, is the dynamics of the inductance of a charged gas? Think in that direction.

As a matter of fact, it is almost impossible to get an inductive response out of a Teo Audio Liquid Metal Cable.

Importantly, if you try to make an inductive coil out of liquid metal you get a giant... FAIL.

You get a wholly different beast. Ie, ’forces you don’t understand’.

An entire area of potentials in physics and possible technology that exactly ZERO people have thought enough about to explore and exploit. the math becomes impossibly complex (quantum and classical, combined, in living motion) and experimentation becomes the order of the day.

Forces I don’t understand? Highly unlikely. All forces can be reduced to the very simple equation, F=ma 🤗 (mass x acceleration) ....it’s not that complicated, guys.

Without mass there can be no time. - Luke Perry