Speakers vs source/amp budget

plaser,

"In fact I’ve noticed for bookshelf speakers especially after around $3k there is hardly much improvement except for the price tag."

Nothing much to argue with here. Bookshelf designs are usually compromised by size, hence often used with subs.


"On the other hand the difference between $2k amp and $10k is night and day and same goes for turntables and dacs."


A lot to argue with here.

I've long believed that DACs and amplifiers, if matched in drive and power output, sound more or less sound the same.

I didn't notice much difference between my NAD, Naim, or Creek amplifiers, although I have only ever used efficient easy to drive speakers, apart from a pair of Quad ESLs which didn't work out for me. 

Perhaps you could provide some examples of what you define as 'night and day'?


As verdantaudio said, loudspeakers are where the real gains are to be found. As there are so many different approaches and design philosophies it is really a question of giving them a listen.

"I went out and tried to find speakers under $5K that were better. I could find some that were different (Scansonic, DeVore, Acoustic Zen and Monitor Audio) all sounded different (and very good) but I wasn't convinced they were better. Some sounded much worse but they will remain un-named."


My findings too.

I also think that cabinet issues are a difficult (and often downright expensive) limitation to overcome. Therefore some of speakers I would love to hear next  would be some open baffle designs like the Linkwitz Pluto's/Orion's/LX521s.

I'd love to hear some Magnepans too, but right now there's zero indication of when the shows are going to restart. This must really be hitting the small loudspeaker firms hard.

Sopra 1s are great with Naim Gear.  Very smooth and musical.  

Since you like Wilson's you should probably hear the TuneTots if you haven't already.  I listened to them driven by Naim gear in NYC and they are a darn good sounding little speaker.  

You should try and hear the Magico A1s.  Gotta be on everyones list. 

The Raidho X-1 and XT-1 are freakin' awesome speakers, but placement is critical.  

If you are adventurous, depending on your amp, I would encourage you to check out my Blackthorn 1 (Naim or Tube) or my Nightshade 1 with SS gear that is a little brighter.  

Not sure you can find them, but the Wilson Benesch Geometry line is obscenely good.  Starts at like $8500 and goes to $50K for standmounts but they are very good sounding speakers.  

cd318, just to give you an example I used to only listen to vinyls on my Linn LP12 Akurate with radikal power supply and Naim superline/supercap phono stage because no DAC however good came close to it (previously used McIntosh D150 at $3500, Chord TT 1 at ~$4000, and Naim 272 all in one streamer/DAC/preamp for $6500ish). Then, I tried hooking up a Chord Dave ($10k) and it just blew all the other DACs away. It sounded so much (natural sounding) like the vinyls that now I do most of my listening streaming from Tidal (Auralic G1 streamer -> Chord Dave DAC -> Naim 300 power amp).

Some of the difference lies here: 2k will buy you a decent pair of minimonitors, while 10K will buy you a very good floorstander. Whereas 2k can buy you a competent 200W amp, and 10K an exceptional one. Where are you going to hear the bigger difference?

Dollars have nothing to do with this.  I thought that has been established for a long time between everyone here.  It is the parts and the design that make the sound not the amount.

Example - Nichicon capacitors versus WIMA.  V-Caps versus clarity - Shinkoh, Mills & Audio Note resistors versus others.  Plitron transformers & Chokes versus Hammond, etc.  Same foe with speakers - paper cones versus aluminum drivers, tweeter types, Alnico magnets, cabinet materials and design.  Once you understand how these things have an effect on the sound you will finally get it.  If not then you are going round and round.

I do not understand the terms being used in threads blew away - built like a tank, etc.  In what ways did one sound better than the other and what music were you listening to where you can point out the differences.  References to how the sound change is important for the rest of us to understand the differences.

Happy Listening.