@b4icuIf If you want to find out about audio cable design from a rather scientific point of view, I suggest reading the Iconoclast “white papers - design briefs” where a seasoned cable designer/engineer shares his process/methodology of his designing Iconoclast cables using the resources/equipment of the large cable company Belden.https://www.iconoclastcable.com/story/
Are cables really worth their high price because of their geometry?
They’re some pricey cables that have claim to fame because of the high tech geometry used in their cables.
Many of these cables have patents on specific geometry patterns used in their cables and use this as a reason their cables sound so good. For that reason, many say the reason their cables cost so much is they’re so complex . The man hours to make a pr results in their high price. That maybe true for some cables, but I’ve seen very pricey cables using the same geometry reason that look like a thin piece of wire rapped in outer jacket no thicker than a pencil. So,Is all this geometry just another way to justify their cost or is it true science that we are paying in the end?
Many of these cables have patents on specific geometry patterns used in their cables and use this as a reason their cables sound so good. For that reason, many say the reason their cables cost so much is they’re so complex . The man hours to make a pr results in their high price. That maybe true for some cables, but I’ve seen very pricey cables using the same geometry reason that look like a thin piece of wire rapped in outer jacket no thicker than a pencil. So,Is all this geometry just another way to justify their cost or is it true science that we are paying in the end?
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Mr. kennyc
Sorry, you just used an old trick to deverse me to a website of no significance at all. There is no science involved in that site. BS? a lot! You really look for science? The cable's character that matters is its resistance. As the cable is an extension of the Amp's Ro (DF) it's value of resistance shall be low, to keep the DF as close to it's given figures. That can be calculated. It will differ from system to system, by the Amp's DF and required cable length. It works! You are kindly invited to my thread of How to select a good Speaker Cable https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/how-to-select-a-good-speaker-cable Read the feedback of those who were interested in my theory and tried it out, for as little as US $100 or less. After this try, cables purchased for thousands of $ went to storage. Geometry? First try a calculated thicker cable. That's more like science than Geometry. Belden is a respected raw cable manufacturer. They do not make Audio speaker cables. They make spools of cables: all kinds. When I was with a VOA (Voice Of America) station RFP, they asked for Belden. They said specifically what cable (P/N) and how to treat it. None was regarding Audio speaker cables. Using the Belden name is nice, but it doesn't impresses me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqFLXayD6e8 :-) |
@b4icu Which part of the white papers do you disagree on? Did even read the white papers? Your saying “The cable’s character that matters is its resistance.” so only resistance matters, but this seasoned cable engineer says that “A standard approach to any problem in audio cabling begins with some fundamental measurable attributes of wire and cable: R (resistance), L (inductance) and C (capacitance).”. Where’s your proof that this engineer is wrong? And no, Belden is not “just” a raw cable manufacturer, they’re the company that manufacturers the Iconoclast cables. If you don’t know this, seems obvious that you didn’t even bother to look at the white papers. I’ve got no skin in the game but I’m open minded to look at the evidence. I mentioned Belden because this engineer has access to many expensive measuring, manufacturing, and other equipment that the typical audio cable manufacturer cannot afford. I looked at your arguments and the engineers and frankly given his specific expertise and experience in designing and manufacturing cables I’d say the professional’s word in the field has more weight. I mentioned you specifically because I assumed in your previous post you were asking for additional info/proof. But it seems your promoting your thread/ideas which implies you’re not open minded but rather opinionated. My intention was to help you. Apologies if I missed the mark. |
Mr. kennyc
A thick cable's resistance is so low, that the inductance and capacitance are negligible. So is the Ro of a high DF Amp. Is that you confront me, or is an engineer at a white something website? I was very opened minded. I'd found it. I know what makes a good cable better. I tried it myself. I made a few cables to my friends: they loved the results. And I came up on Audiogon, in 2018, did an experiment and the results were all on my favorit: stunning. All industries says on cable: Directional, Cryo treated, Bi wire, Pure copper, Silver over copper, Skin effect, Geometry, Snake's oil They were all checked (Open minded you claim) and found none relevant. All were deception to make people pay for something that do nothing. You may think that the Snake's oil is the worst. No! its only the most obvious. The rest need a bit brain to dissolve. None of your idea of "open minded" do not show any engineering or physical explanation, nor a compare to a conventional cable. They are all stories. like the bible. I'm happy that on the cables you didn't gave the credit to God! Not to say, that according to my religion, God is off on Shabbat. Well what about yourself sir, are you open minded to check mine? |
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