DIY Helix Geometry Cabling

Thanks Steve, I have enjoyed making these and experimenting with different wires and dielectric's. Your efforts in keeping the knowledge base accessible is appreciated.

Thanks for posting. I assume the helix acts as a shield and that there is good noise rejection when used as interconnects. 

One thing I forgot to mention - the Audiogon Private Messaging feature...

• for some reason, when I try to use this feature the following message is displayed
  • You must have a verified phone number and payment method to send messages.
• Since I am extremely guarded in my use of my "payment informtation", this is not going to happen
• so for the time being please DO NOT use private messaging to contact me
• I will monitor this thread for any questions

Many Thanks - Steve

@noromance - the purpose of the helix neutral is two fold

#1...

• to stop the alternating voltage in the signal wire from inducing "noise" into the neutral wire, which utlimately is fed back into the neutral side of the circuits of the connected components.
• Noise on the neutral side of the circuit impacts the ability of the circuit to perform as designed
• When used on all cables in a system noise is elimanated throughout the system.

Some say this is negligable, but at each "stage" that noise is amplified and as such creates a significant problem by the time it reaches the speakers.

The speakers have the highest voltages, so they make the biggest impact to the neutral side of the amplifier

On the power cable side of things - any noise on the neutral permates through the entire system via the attached components and contributes greatly to system wide noise issues

#2...

• The helix spiral acts like a faraday cage around the signal wire
• it minimizes the impact of "external noise" on the signal wire(s) by disrupting the "Space" around them
  • a bit like a screen

Yes - Noise rejection is very good, both from external sources and internal cable  signal induced noise

• e.g. I once held a standard turntable cable (i.e. from the MC cartridge to the phono) tightly n my fist, against a Helix power cable
• to even my surprise, whilst there was a very small amount of hum coming from the speakers is was only audible when the amp was turned to very high levels

Hope that helps - Steve

Thanks for posting Steve. I'm looking forward to trying my hand at building, starting with power cords. 

@williewonka Thanks for taking the time to answer. 

@williewonka Many thanks for bringing back the information.

@williewonka Thank you for providing a valuable service to the audiophile community. I've been making the power cables for years using various types of wire and gauges of that wire, just exceptional PC's. This in comparison to PC's II've owned and others I had borrowed from lending library at CableCompany, these at many price levels, up to $7k for six foot runs, accounting for inflation likely at least $10k in today's dollars. What amazes is the seemingly complete absence of dynamic restriction, add amazingly low noise floor, windowless transparency, and then you can tune via the wire, guage of wire and AC connectors. Really, just a perfect AC cable, sold off vast majority of my AC cables from well known manufacturers, full loom of these, done with cabling for good.

@williewonka Do you have the “Inside The Helix Geometry” article? I’m looking for the information on “The direction” of the Helix for the wire. Can’t seem to find it in any of the pdf you have posted.

@red4765 I made a wiki article: https://github.com/live-sound/helix/wiki/Inside-The-Helix-Geometry

Thanks @zlib 

Hey guys,

Does anyone have any experience with different conductors for +5v in USB Helix cable? Is it necessary to go for OCC? Does insulation matter?

@zlib - the answer to your questions are ...

• it depends how sensitive your ears are
• in general, using regular wire for the DC power circuit should not degrade performance of the circuit that is using the 5v supply too much
• insulaton is not as much of a factor with DC power
• If you are using the cable to connect to a computer I would recommend using a seperate power supply
  • computer USB power is very noisy compared to a dedicated 5v supply
  • this entails seperating the power lead from the signal wires at the source end and attaching a seperate USB plug for power only
  • This would improve performance of the connected component significantly.

In reality, the signal passing through the signal wires causes a connected component to vary the current drawn in the 5V supply line - this in turn cause very small fluctuations in voltage and the combintion can cause very small degradation of the signal passing through the signal wires. IF your ears are extremely sensitive, then you may hear a difference between using OFC for the 5v line and one using OCC copper for the 5V line.

Hope that helps - Steve

@mpower1001 - seems our PM thread has been locked

Take a look at this thread for details on the DIY Helix Cables - see the first post for links to PDF files containing construction details

Regards - Steve

@nightlyfly - sorry not to reply to your PM, but that feature requires a credit card number and I do not enter that into any app, so I have to respond via this thread.

Your question...

Hi Steve
I am preparing the Helix cables, I use copper / teflon, do you want to describe the differences using the bare cable vs the teflon coated cable, I am using Neotech cables.

Without getting into the technical aspects, I noticed a significant improvement in clarity, articulation & dexterity, very fine details, like the echoes and reverberation of the venue and a new, larger 3D image . Live albums exhibit a more realistic reproduction beyond anything I had heard. It puts you in the venue

It’s difficult to attribute which cables provide those benefits because all of my cables were Helix, and as I developed a new approach I changed all of the cables to that approach.

I guess the big difference with the power cables was the 3D nature of the image

Hope that helps, steve

@raf90 - apologies for my delay in answering your posts.

Unfortunately, I have taken the web site down due to the expense of hosting.

But the first post of this thread contains new links to pdf files that shows how to build them.

Regards

Thanks much @pindac for referring this thread.

@williewonka looks everything extremely interesting.

For speaker cables:

- Why would you prefer a stranded neutral over solid core?

- Do you have a picture of a final speaker cable with two twisted signal wires and one neutral helix around it? I am wondering about the spacing of the helix

- I need a 22' and 14' run. First whats your experience with pairs which are not the same length and more important, Mapleshade uses a parallel geometry for longer runs, what is your experience with long runs?

Also, still could not find a source for PC triple C wire....

@total111 - the answers to your question...

• i preferred the sound of the silver plated stranded copper for speaker cables. Using OCC as the neutral sounded too clinical
• 20 and 14 ft is too long for the Helix design. I did make a 12ft cable once
• You can run the conductors in parallel, but keep them spaced about 10mm apart. To accomplish that you could sandwich the two wires between two pièces of brown paper parcel tape.

Using cables of different length normally impacts image and clarity.

• This is generally due to the impact of the capacitance of the insulation.
• If you adopt the "AIR" design of placing à bare solid  wire inside the teflon tube, for both signal and neutral, then because the wire has very little contact with the tube, there is very little capacitance, so the two cables should produce very good results

Hope that helps

Thanks much @williewonka 

you use use a twisted pair for the signal or just one wire?

@total111 , i use a twisted pair of wires for the signal and a larger gauge for the neutral e.g.

• 2 x 17 gauge solid wire for the signal = 14 gauge
• 1 x 12 gauge solid wire for the neutral OR
• 1 x 10 gauge stranded wire for the neutral

Regards

ok, I could use something like this to attach/glue the wires with constant spacing of 0.4"

https://www.ebay.com/itm/114786508621?_skw=HDPE+Bar+%28Polyetylene%29+Strips+White+.031%22+x+2.0%22+x+25+Ft+Roll&itmmeta=01JWSSGPKP7MKES9MCY45F3SGK&hash=item1ab9cf1f4d:g:IpoAAOSwfeJgQ8xx&itmprp=enc%3AAQAKAAABIFkggFvd1GGDu0w3yXCmi1cY%2FTiyHT%2F0O%2F45bJwFpOQFmZNMn60DybXosUJntKwEZHhuFtKRWRkrq9whaYA%2BEebrwMoXTjqikwE08%2BUO95mAzg0yzhDkCkhU64yo5Ztk6oIpEaf%2BYZrBIhJNzKTP7znqrToWNs3YE1St9CJGh%2Bz6ft%2FQvwaLog8heYjkIqXe%2BIeMPZYhR%2Ff3qyWBk2YWWdnF2WvB0kDbK1mrnlyFLvIDL7okYz8a%2Fw1NuVRv7z1ec%2BwU4Fu7WO8VBh8qSZGS1SQftsEs3y5WxlyiiEGWSCOludmDAQLcW6osHeoQAk29Pkibd7irm3bbIWjcO0fdg%2FoeuageLf76gmDbJK9zkbSC53kXm93mg8BU9ZSBTyxYgQ%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMnuvCueZl

@total111 The Links are to Solid Core PC Triple C.

The red sheath is 0.9mm and the black sheath Reference II is the 1.1mm.

For buying Solid Core, there only seems to be the option the buy a Branded Item.

Stranded PC Triple C Wire has been known to be sourced without a Brand Name attached to the sale item. 

https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/k1186201373/

https://www.fromjapan.co.jp/japan/en/auction/yahoo/input/1187333715/

@total111 , paper is better from a dielectric perspective.

But that  tape should be OK 

.

@williewonka Hi Steve, A late 'chip in' , to make it known I appreciate your efforts and the additional help received for keeping the Historical Helix Cable Info available and for the subject of DIY Helix Cables remaining in the mainstream. 

Hello @williewonka and thanks for reviving this subject!
Quick question: have you tried using rectangular wire and, if so, discerned differences in the sound signature? Thanks

@gregm , never tried it

Any differences would probably be due to

1. Increased cross sectional area
2. Increased dielectric impact of the larger surface area  of square wire

• I would not use it because of this

Regards

@pindac , you are welcome.

I hope more DIYers get to know the benefits of the Heilx geometry.

Its not perfect, but it's a lot better than most others

Thanks for your support :-)

@total111 - gave your cables some thought an came up with this...

1. Get some wood strip approximately 3mm x 10mm
2. Cut small pièces approximately 20cm long
3. Use a piece as a spacer to hold the wires apart
4. Secure it in place using heat shrink (with adhesive)
5. Space them about 6 inches apart

The finished cable will look like a long ladder

You can cover it with expandable sleeving if you like

That should provide the best performance

Regards

thanks much @williewonka 

I need try-wiring as I am tri-amping my speakers and on top the cables will likely cross a walking path in the living room. I know that sounds crazy....

see here...
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/finally-arrived/post?postid=2621116#2621116

meaning I am thinking of a way to put 3 cables (6 strands) in one construction to keep all strands at the defined spacing...yeah, there is no such commercial solution ;-) 

Maybe I could use a 22mm x 10mm wood piece and arrange the 3 signal cables on one side spaced ~10mm apart...that would make it also saver for being trampled on by dogs or humans...

thanks @pindac for the links

Does only Acoustic Revive offer them? Neither link contains a single wire for DYI. The first AV cable could be separated but not the ideal starting point.

Acoustic Revive is the only route known to me to buy a Solid Wire.

The Red Sheath 0.9mm Solid Wire is the one used, where I showed the report from the Cable Producer.

The Big Cable producers such as Furutech and SAEC seem to have the monopoly on stranded Wire, but searches do discover Wire Only, usually ?? x 0.18 Strands.

My PC Triple C / EX is a Wire Clad with a High Purity Silver outer skin, which has a strand at 0.3mm and a Wire build up of ?? x 0.3mm. This is the Strand of Wire I intend on having used as my Tonearm Wand Wire. It might be the only Tonearm in use with this as a signal path.

I have been very reliably informed that there are renowned Cartridge Producing Companies that have used a 0.07mm - 41AWG Wire in a Model within their range Cartridges for the coil winding.

I have a 0.08mm PC Triple C wire that has been a very very difficult find.

Now I have 0.08mm Wire in my possession, it has prompted me to change direction on a Plan for a owned Cartridge to be rebuilt.

Off Topic Follows 

I am recently entered into a new discussion with a Cartridge Builder about having their design for a Cartridge produced with the 0.08mm wire as the Coil. It is early days, and obviously I will be taking all responsibility for the end result.

If all does come to fruition, there will to my knowledge, be the first PC Triple C Coil Wire Cartridge in use. 

The other designs I have in mind for this Cart' and working these ideas with how the Cartridge Builder has produced the design for their Cart'.

Leaves me to discuss the magnet material type, as there are three types available to be selected.

Cantilever and Styli are available in a selection of configurations, inclusive of a Glochid + Stylus.

The Skirt and Flange to be produced to enable the fastening of  the Cart' when mounting and additionally protect the Inner Cavity of the Cart' from the ambient world, is leaning towards a Panzerholz Form to function as this part. It will be a duplicate in dimension of the part already designed.

I am also knowing an individual who renovates Samurai Ceremonial Armour, he is  trained in Japan for using Urushi Lacquer. I was once offered his support to coat another Cartridge with Urushi Lacquer. Who knows I might also end up with what might be the first Panzerholz / Urushi Lacquer Cartridge. Would the Koetsu Family have approved of such a plaguerism. 

I had an idea how to secure all cable runs in my situation using a half round wood moulding and using a router to cut grooves for the strands. Red is signal, black is neutral. Width is 2" and height is 1"

@total111 , that should work with minimal induced noise.

Let us know how it works out.

I have to ask, can the amps be positioned closer to the speakers?

Might be easier to make longer helix interconnects and keep the speaker cables to a minimum length

Regards

Ah, very interesting idea, just the amps around the speakers....hmmm...let me think about that idea ;-) 

This room, while fantastic and large is however also a living room (with a wife and she does not really like this whole thing...). But yes, I want my music where I sit the most and not in a dedicated room ;-) 

How long can interconnects get? I was always under the assumption as short as possible. But the amps have 12 transformers and hence some magnetic field meaning put it outside the reach of DAC and Preamp is not a bad idea...

However, I have also to protect any ICs from being trampled and fortify them in some way...

Plus power cables, however that should be rather easy...

@total1, do the amps have xlr inputs, that would make life simpler e.g. using standard xlr cables from Zavfino perhaps

Something to think about

Regards

@williewonka no, they dont. XLR would not be an issue obviously. 

I'll ask the brain behind the amps and pre-amp what he thinks...maybe there is even a way to add balanced inputs....

@total111 , you can go up to 30ft with a single ended RCA cable.

The Helix would work well up to 30ft, but challenging to build

Again,  i would recommend Zafino

regards

My own personal take on such a interest, it to tread carefully and attempt to see what a system will look like down the line.

I was very eager to purchase the basics in an ample quantity to do what I needed for producing Helix Design Cables.

A hold off on the Cable Production and taking stock, showed the eagerness was a little too early. The Amp's being Single Ended were under discussion in a previous period to be changed to Balanced. The Room with Audio Equipment is not to be permanent, and the same layout will not be in place if I remain in the Home with the main audio system. A New Space to be created outside of the home, is looking likely to become the Audio Room/Entertainment Room.

Today, the Amp's are Balanced, another Valve Power Amp is also in use as well, a selection of Speakers has materialised and the Planning for the changes to the home are close to being approved by the local authorities.

If I were to produce Cables under eagerness to solely experience them in use, as a comparison to Cables already proven to be improved over other options used, I will have ended up with a selection of Cables that might not be usable as a Length in the upcoming set up for the audio system. 

Another important personal lesson learned over time, especially as a result of doing a fair amount of time doing investigation and follow up comparisons is that:

                                   "Comparison is the thief of joy" 

With the Outcome being only a little extra is a possible end result to be attained.

I have over recent years, once the A/B Comparisons are done, encourages a slightly longer period of replays of an Album as the parameter for the A/B.

The Outcome is nearly always the same, where the listener after having listened to the Album for a extra period of time, does not show too much care if the alternate is set up to be replayed.

The extended listening allows one to relax and enjoy, why change that.

Whether a Bass Note decays speedier or a Vocal has a little less sibilance is not a concern raised. Usually comments made are quite different, such as, "I forgot this Track was on this Album, it is a great Track".    

I hear you @pindac 

my situation is different. The system IS settled but the current cables are borrowed. I need to find a solution which sounds equal or better than the current one. 

@williewonka  Thanks