Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)


I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


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One thing I don't see is your listening position.  If you are trying to fill the entire room with sound you will have reflection problems.  I would be that if you try some nearfield listening that the sound will be much more palatable.  A pair of smaller speakers and you sitting 8-10 feet away could sound much less harsh.
Also, do you have a rug?  I'd go with as big as you can get.  My theater has about 7' ceilings running Coincident (which can be bright) with Mac amps.  My seating position is 2/3 the way back and a really nice rug with a huge bookshelf in the back of the room have tamed it all.
@auxinput
Appreciate your run down. It’s funny to think that the Salk’s tweeters have a " a slight upward tilt in the 22khz area." My hearing, I’d wager, doesn’t go above 14k at this point!

The Revels are interesting choices for trial. I have a good sub, so a pairing there might be interesting.

@mahgister I hear you about the room. I would not say this room is inherently bad but it is a factor. It’s an interesting chicken and egg problem -- how do you choose a speaker if the room isn’t tweaked vs. how do you tweak a room if you don’t have the speaker you’re tweaking it for? For me, the answer is that my room is good enough for speakers to sound pretty good in, and I’ve only got this room to work with. My hopes in this post are to relay what I’ve experienced with all those factors and hope that some generic issues (as mentioned above by auxinput) are likely to be present in a great variety of rooms, including my own.

@b_limo I asked Salk to burn the speakers in before sending. He ran them for 48 hours and I’ll probably run them pretty good for another 48 before really honing in.

The Dyns I’ve heard were pretty luscious sounding, and I’ve *never* heard them on an all tube system, not least one with mono blocks.

As for Be tweets, I’ve never heard them. Soft domes seems safe to me, but a little too safe. Let this middle aged guy drive a sports car to the grocery store and back! But seriously, I am seeking detail-without-harshness. That’s the target I hope to strike between the soft dome and ribbon/metal tweets I’ve heard.

@twoleftears — Good point. Some of what I’m listening for might rely on my own ability to attend properly to the speaker’s output. I have a scoresheet with all the important characteristics on it, so I will pay attention across the range of metrics (tonality, soundstage, dynamics, enjoyability, etc.) and will keep in mind that my stance in a particular situation (e.g. towards a soft-dome) needs to be appropriate.
how do you choose a speaker if the room isn’t tweaked vs. how do you tweak a room if you don’t have the speaker you’re tweaking it for?
Choose any good speakers you like and after that tweak the room and you will fall in love with your speakers of choice....

Better to have a good room or know how to adapt it to any speakers than to have the best speakers of the world in a bad room...

A room non treated can be good for sure.... But Normal room are not design to be like acoustical monastery or theater marvel.... Then we must do something to go in this direction.... This is not necessarily costly to have results....

We all think that our room are good before changing them....:)

My best regards to you and my apology for my rant..... :)
You would be surprised how many people say that there's harshness or brightness in the highs when they are actually hearing midrange frequencies, especially the upper midrange.  Most people hear frequencies in the 3000 kHz to 5000 kHz range and mistake them for the very high frequencies.

The Klipsch RP 600-M is crossed over at a very low 1500 hz between the woofer and the horn tweeter.  This means that titanium compression horn is playing a LOT of the upper midrange and can contribute to the harshness.

Same goes with the Focal midrange.

For the Salk, Satori has two tweeters that seem to match what is in the Salk:

Satori TW29B:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/beryllium-dome-tweeters/satori-tw29b-b-beryllium-dome-tweeter-...

Satori TW29BN:
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/beryllium-dome-tweeters/satori-tw29bn-b-8-beryllium-dome-tweet...

The cheaper "B" model is flat, but if you look at the frequency response of the more expensive "BN" model, you'll see a slight uptick in the response at about 25 kHz.  Whether this can be heard by you is another matter, but in general, Be tweeters should not necessarily be harsh sounding like the older metal domes are.
Thanks for that elaboration, auxinput. At this point the key will be just to listen!