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Speaker shootout update; aggressive treble eliminating some (fairly?)

I've been trying out speakers in a complicated shoot out, both bookshelves and towers — all in my home with my gear. I'm looking for speakers obtainable up to about $4k but could go up (or down) a bit if the right thing came along.

Basic facts: All speakers were run in at least 100 hours. Room is 27 x 14 x 6.5 ceilings. Powering with all QS tubes, 60w, NOS, tube R2R dac, and decent cables. No terrible reflection points; room not overly live or dampened. REL R 328 sub available but I did most listening without it.

Recent auditions, type:

Klipsch RP 600-M (budget singleton of the group)
Fritz Rev Carbon 7 mk II (bookshelf, 2 way, soft dome)
Focal 936 (tower, 3 way, inverted metal)
Martin Logan Motion 60s XTi (tower, 3 way, AMT)

Coming soon:

Salk SS 6M (bookshelf, 2 way, beryllium)
Dynaudio Evoke 30's (tower, 3 way, soft dome)

Let me speak just to the problems, rather than what was good about the speakers. So far, I've found the Klipsch, Focal, and especially the Martin Logans were all too bright — forward, aggressive, "turn it down" treble.

The ML's were the most impossible to tame and hardest to listen to on more tracks. (I did a lot of hanging of towels and other dampeners and other soft things to try to see if I could bring them to heel. I varied the recordings used. Changed cables/wires. No luck.)

The Focals were occasionally too bright; their bigger problem was a bit too much energy in my small listening space. They were better when I plugged their ports with socks.

I'm looking forward to how the next two speakers sound. The Dynaudio towers, I notice, are 10 inches shorter and half the weight of the other towers; not sure what that might mean, but it could just be right size for my space. I'm looking forward to seeing if the Salks bring more detail to the treble without also being too rolled off or harsh.

Hearing is very personal for physiological and taste reasons. However, if anyone has any thoughts about why I might be experiencing some of the phenomena I am (harsh treble, especially) based on my room or gear, etc., that might help me understand factors I'm not fully appreciating. Thanks.


128x128hilde45
corelli
1,009 posts
 
Several thoughts:

Many years ago bought a pair of Def Tech BP-10's following an all to quick audition. They were bright. I had 6 CD's that sounded great. The rest not so much. Learned to hate them. They did not "break in" nor did my ears adjust. When you have a speaker like this, it is sheer lunacy to try and spend huge amounts of money to tame a speaker you don't even like in the first place. WHY WOULD SOMEONE EVER DO THAT?

By doing some careful research I am amazed how you can often find what you love without carting numerous speakers home (pity those dealers). We should all agree that a Klipsch is going to brighter than a Sonus Faber. Now what you love is up to you. So with careful discussion with other audio friends who owned both Magnepan 1.7's and then Tekton DI's, I confidently ordered up. And not only did I LOVE the DI's, but they did exactly what others had said they did.

So do some homework and don't waste time on stuff doomed to fail. Tonal balance and some other qualities will remain a constant no matter what room and what gear you pair them up with. I'll bet with careful research and discussion you can find a speaker you love in one or two tries. Then address placement and room treatments. Then look at associated gear and cables.   If your electronics are staying put, then obviously that has implications in what speakers will be good candidates as well.
sancho22
106 posts
 
I had good luck with ProAc, Merlin and Sonus Faber Cremona monitors.
WLM (now sort of vintage) La Scala and Diva are great as well.

I suspect the DeVore Gibbon 3XL could work too.

Lot son great opr=tions suggested already.
hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
5,015 posts
 
@corelli 
I've done a lot of homework, and have made a yeoman's effort trying to avoid things *doomed* to fail. Of course there is quite an expanse between "doomed" and "delightful." So, learning what my ears would like meant some experiment, some shipping, and some schlepping. This has got to be typical of most here. What I didn't appreciate sufficiently was the effects of a low ceiling on an otherwise very balanced space (in terms of reflection, absorption, etc.). Now that I've learned that, I'm in the zone. It's taken some time, but this is a hobby, so if it had been more efficient, it would have been less fun. 
terry9
2,353 posts
 
According to the simulations done by the School of Acoustics at Salford, your room is almost exactly a foot too long. I suggest putting in shelving on one end, books or records, just make sure that the irregular surface (records) presented to the room is 12-18" from the wall. Specifically, room dimension dimensions of 1 : 2.15 : 3.95 would work better (6.5, 14. 25.75). What are the EXACT measurements of your room, I mean to the nearest 1/4 inch?

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but ESL's are not inherently bright. It is the electronic processing which can make them so, especially the protection, crossover, and EQ circuits. I spent a gob of money on ML hybrids about 20 years ago, and IIRC, found that they used cheap capacitors in the signal path. Lost those and found the sound.

Even so, they weren't Quads. Not sure if that's useful information or not, as you probably want to get something that works well out of the box.
larry5729's avatar
larry5729
1,009 posts
 
If you can afford to spend $6,000, I would buy a pair of SALK Song3 Encore towers.  I heard these at the RMAF in Denver and they sounded better than a pair of $60,000 speakers down the hall.  Call Jim Salk and tell him Larry Edwards from Denver sent you.  There is nothing in this for me, but I think you will be blown away by the sound.  He sells only direct and because he does not have to discount his speakers to dealers, he can afford to use the best speaker components.  His cabinet build is also incredible.  Wish I had waited to buy these myself.  Hopefully, one of these days I will buy a pair.
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