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SEAS Excel Magnesium Midwoofer 51/2 inches ROCK SOLID BASS

Just measured the  edge of surround, it is 5 1/2 inches across.
I am getting TONs or ROCK SOLID BASS.
Does anyone still believe in the woofer theory, bigger is better??

Especially taking room size into acct, Yeah if you havea  palace size room, maybe you want to fill it with bass, soa  8 inch/10 ibch might work for you
I think we should always bring up room size in discussion ofa  ideal speaker bass response.
also note, bass is bass,, well not really, Cone material and how cone is labed makes a  big difference. This SEAS Excel has FREE moving  membrane around the solid copper phase pluf. 
also in considertion is how well doesa  mid woofer/woofer  both voice the upper low fq's to meet  with either a  midrange(which i hate) and a  midtweet. 
I think SEAS hit on the perfect idea of allowing the come to move freely indepent of the solid copper phase plug. 
 Giving a  natural bass response  and adding  the fullest possible bass extention due to its undersized 5.5 cone. 
+ its my guess this magnesiusm material is superior to the old standard paper. 
I know B& W also boasts a  unique cone material, that cool looking yellow fabric,,but i am not at all keen on how their midwoofers voice the upper low fq's. Its too colored for my taste.
So yeah I bought a  sub system to catch the lowest fq's, but as my tech guy says, ,, for what? and suggested that dayton sub amp witha   Cerwin Vega 10 inch,, will only add some dull boominess, with no fidelity (have both for sale on Craiglist cheap) , I always believed maybe I should try to gather the lowest fq's missing in the 5.5 inch midwoofers,,, But really there is not much going on in the 20-30 hz area anyway. 
It would only add this dull  boomy noise.

Somehow Seas Tested and figured out the 5 1/2 inch mid is the best of both worlds,, meets the required low fq register and also meets the Millennium midtweet at a  higher fq  junction making ita  seamless transparent high fidelity image.
At least thats what i am now finally hearing after  upgrading  and repairing my newly acquired Jadis DPL.
IOW the Thors have come alive after all these 18 years when driven with high quality components. 

The Q is,  what is the advantage of havinga  woofer larger than 6/7 (foam edge to foam edge) inches in a speaker design? To what benifit?
Also we should consider how a   specific 6/7 midwoofer voices the upper low fq's that meet the midtweeter. 
This could bea  issue, where the tweet has one particular voice and the widwoifer has a  slightly dif voicing. 
=  will sound like crap.
I think Seas tested all these  critical parimeters and came up with theie Excel line, some 20 years ago,, I am now curious to their new Flagship design the Cresendo + Nextel midwoofer 2 way.
Taking High Fidelity into the 21st century and ,,,beyond.....
I am on the fence should i add this Bifrost as a 2nd speaker,,, or upgrade my Thors xover with all Mundorf Silver caps/ ULTRA resistors/ top of line coils

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqUDP4Byyo4
mozartfan
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
8" is the minimum woofer size for adequate punch

OK I'll grant there area  class of audiophiles who are into that **big stage sound**

8inch in my listening enviornment has always been *overkill*. 
5 1/5 inch has always met my needs for bass, and then some. 
As you suggest, each group of audiophiles will have different perspectives and wants for bass. 
The 5 1/2 incher delivers all the bass i ever could wish for ,,and then some.
But for you it may be too anemic. 
And for me, your 8 inch woofer bass might just  grate on my nerves. 
each his own.

extravaganza
373 posts
 
it is not always abaut bass,18inch woofer can produce better midrange than 8
oldhvymec
5,101 posts
 
I’m wondering on the room size. What size are you working with, and how close are you to your system? There is a point where it’s just to small an enclosure to use bigger drivers...

I have a couple pairs of speakers that use 4" DVC woofers, I’m amazed at how accurate they are, and at 95+ efficient and 35 plus years old. They rock the joint, in a small room.

About 27.5 hz is as low as we hear, then we feel it. A 5.24" driver sounds so good because it is a MB driver. Most of what we call bass slam is not in the sub region.
50 (+ or -) 5 hz - 250-300 hz is the window shakers. 40 hz and below are foundation shakers.

A very well designed MB coupler has a tough job. Has to be fast, yet deliver a pressure that BANGS your chest. 5.25 is on the light side.
Smaller rooms though, they might be perfect.

I like 10-12" WCF MB drivers that are VERY permeable. In other words, mine have .60 holes in the cone material (woven carbon fiber) and they are lighter and FASTER and surely stronger, than most cones. You can see through them. They also use phase plugs, but unlike seas they are adjustable. Taper and length.

The other problem is inside the box, the back side of the driver, different issue, but I use a PR to control that, (overshoot and recovery) from the outside with weight added or subtracted to the PR cone, faster roll off.

Then there is 60 hz and below, whole different ball game...Whole different box. Just like your first poster, when you hear a well set up system Bottom to Top, you walk away just amazed...

I did some 55 + years ago. My Dads Thoren 121, C11, a pair MC30s and  JBL C46 Minigon

I started that day.......I haven't stopped yet, I'm 65

Regards
motokokusanagi
189 posts
 
I'm confused, the Seas Thor uses 2 x W18E001 (7") in a tower transmission line giving an F3 of 44hz without room gain http://www.madisound.com/loudspeaker_specifications/audioXpress%20Thor%20Review.pdf 

For the 5" W15, it has a specified Fs of 38hz but Troels real-world measurements were 50hz in an 11.5l traditional ported cabinet  http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/SEAS_5INCH_FILES/TS-data.GIF
mozartfan OP
2,143 posts
 
I'm confused, the Seas Thor uses 2 x W18E001 (7")

WEll what i mean to say is although it is described as a  7 inch midwoofer,, if you measure the acutal foam edge to edge , it comes to 5 1/2 inches,, thats tiny, but does the job nicely..
sure as stated above depends on rm size,, my room is like 10 X12, 8 ft ceiling, small, but it is what it is. 
I am about 8 ft from speakers, ,I have gain low, not even 1/4 turn on Jadis DPL. Never in my 40 yrs as audiophile , care for/enjoy *loudness*. There is a point where i am comfortable after that gain,,whats the point of having more db level???
= I am not a  true audiophile, Loud to me is pointless/meaningless. 


@oldhvybelow a  7/5.5 midwoofer, , as in your 4 inch,,thats too tiny, the bass will not be sufficient. 
~~NOTE~~~ when i used the descript **SLAMMMM* above,, I was of course exaggerating, just trying to draw attention to the observation that **really** in a normal size listening enviornment, a  7 inch/5.5 actual midwoofer offers more than enough bass to satisfy the criterion of a  audiophiles demand for bass slam. 
Slam as in true hi fidelity(tight, subtle, clean, gorgeous...,,not slam as in hiphop , R&R, Grunge genre, which is just like bombs going off.  
It might be true though the SEAS EXCEL W22 or even W26 , may offer a bass which is even more luxuorious , sublime than the W18, , Thing is , how to xover  the W22/26 to  a  midtweet successfully. 
This is where the SEAS engineers came across  isues, The W22/26 offered too much bass, and  so overwhelmed the balances of lower midrage/midrage/uppermidrange fq's. 
Things were not balanced. So the perfect match could only  be the W18, 5 1/2 inch cone. = Done Deal = Case closed. 
W18 King of all bass/low midrange fq's  for regular/normal size listening enviornments and the most ideally perfect driver to meet the xover to a  midtweet. 


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