A pragmatic view of cartridge expenses / many questions

Audioquest4life, my 911s will only get 8000 miles out of rear Cup 2S 
For every day use Michelin Sport 4S are wonderful. I get 20,000 miles on those and there is no difference in handling off track. For track use get P Zero Trofeo Rs and really burn up the money. $2000/day:) I just saw my first midengined Corvette. I'm sure it is the performance value of the century but according to recent press it feels like a Jeep and worse it is at least to my eyes huge and ugly. Ferrari still corners the market on the best looking cars. The new Gordon Murry car looks nice. Mclarens are not bad but not up to Ferrari in the looks department. My ultimate car remains the Singer 911 followed by the Eagle GT. 

@chakster 

“The price often has nothing to do with the quality. After using some overpriced modern cartridges at $3-5k range I am happy to get back to the basics and keep using some NOS samples of the best high-end from the 80s (MM,MI and MC) that cost me much less in price and sound better.”
I am tracking with you on that point for sure. My first high end cartridge, the original Benz LP, was a revelation into great sounding cartridge instruments. I heard the Koetsu Onyx and Jade and thought the Benz LP was not giving up much in sound quality, if any at all, compared to these stone body cartridges. There was a distinct difference in sound and the stones seemed to exhume a naturalness that the Benz does provide, but at a lower level. But, I always thought that if one day I could afford it, I would probably get a stone body Koetsu because of the revelatory listening experience I heard at the time. Today, there are so many cartridges at varying price points that compete with far higher price cartridges, that I think it’s a great time to be into records. A previous comment about downward trickle effect and better technologies allowing for better sound at lower prices is so true. What 80s cartridges have you compared with higher priced ones? I have had my share of Shur, Pickering, ADC, Audio Technica, Denon, as I was growing up and they are still part of my everyday living room setup. 

@audioquest4life 

You can compare any overpriced Koetsu to the Fidelity-Research FR-7fz yourself. You can also compare Koetsu to Miyabi Standard if you can find one, but not to Swiss made Benz. 

Compare Japanese cartridges to some other Japanese cartridges.  

The fact that Koetsu still in business does not make this cartridge any better, because the Yoshiaki Sugano is not making them anymore. He is the one who made the name and reputation of Koetsu, but Garrott Brothers in Australia pointed out how purely they were made and always fixed them for the original owners.

If you want to know more about modern high-end business model you have to read Mr. Andreoli's comments (he's another legend in business, trained by Garrott Brothers long time ago). 

I will tell again to everyone that buying a cartridges like Koetsu top models for insane prices is not exactly what audiophiles must do to enjoy the music. This is only a part of the luxury life of some very rich people. 

If you want to find the best sounding cartridges you don't have to pay insane prices! The key is the knowledge and personal experience. 

  What 80s cartridges have you compared with higher priced ones? I have had my share of Shure, Pickering, ADC, Audio Technica, Denon, as I was growing up and they are still part of my everyday living room setup.

I have compares so many, but let me point you to some of the best without making this list so long:

**Moving Magnet:

AT-ML180 OCC 
Grace LEVEL II BR/MR
Grace F14 Excellent (this is exact name of the model).
Pickering XLZ-7500 (low impedance version with extremely low output).
Pickering XSV-5000 
Victor X1II 

**Moving Coil:

Miyabi Standard
Ortofon MC2000
Grace Asakura One 
Victor MC-L10
Ikeda 9C III
FR-7fz 


... I could add many more even for much lover price that all of these above. I have all these cartridges now in NOS or MINT condition, and i'm not referring to my memories (from 30 years ago). I am listening my system with those cartridges now in 2020. And i will never buy any modern high-end cartridge for $3-5k again - this is a rip-off (or a ticket to sect of elitists who often know nothing about cartridges, but got money to pay the bills believing that anything new and modern in audio business is the best, but it's not true).   









    

Oh and pay no attention to Chakster raving on about old cartridges. He only listens to Elvis:)

@mijostyn

In my last conversation with Elvis I can't remember he has mentioned any phono cartridges, lol 

@mijostyn,

Thanks for the insight. As a matter of fact, I do have two tonearms, SME Vs. They are mounted on a Transrotor Apollon and I do swap cartridge use between a Benz LPs, Soundsmith Sussaro MKIi and Benz Ruby Z. I just received a Van den Hul Crimson Stradivarius to demo. I am sending my Aesthetix IO Signature for an upgrade this winter to get the volume and dual phono inputs, and an Eclipse upgrade, which would make it easier to use both tonearms. I don’t get why higher price cartridges have to have such painful refurbished price policies as the costs to manufacture them are already absorbed in production. Granted, 24 karat gold windings and machined exotic materials are expensive, but, you already paid the price for admission. A cantilever and/or tip should not be that expensive. I guess they do serve an audience, of which I am not. That’s why I asked....the more reasonably priced cartridges have less price premium to refurbish. I know, it’s logarithmic with the price strategy of the high end cartridges...but again, we know that it’s unreasonable. For some, that’s not an issue. I do look for bargains in getting cartridges that go on sale or for ones I could trade in to get an upgrade. 
Essentially, owning records and being aware of cartridge wear go hand and hand with each other. The more you enjoy playing your music, the more use of cartridge, and voila, time to either factory retip or trade in. 
What’s a reasonable break even point in today’s cartridge market? Is there even such a thing? 
All good points, thank you.