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the sound of massed violins in classical orchestral recordings

why do massed violins have this sort of gritty sandpapery reverberation in classical orchestral recordings?even in some sections of a piece, when the violins are playing softly in the background, you hear that gritty overtone more than the melody.when I listen to the Houston symphony in Jones Hall,sitting fourth row, facing the violin section, I don't hear that sound.I have three systems { two of them mid-fi ] and I hear the same thing-even with headphones.in all instances, the other parts of the orchestra are clear.  my main system : Vanalistine Trancendence 10 tube preamp,a 35 year old solid state Proton D1200 amp, [have tried NAD,Project, Musical Fidelity amps--they don't sound any better],Onkyo dx7555 CD player [Stereophile class B],and Project Carbon turntable with Grado Black 2 cartridge [ the Ortophon Red was too bright ] through Magnepan MG12/QR speakers.Tried a highly regarded Elac speaker--no change as far as the violins go, but way inferior to those dramatic Maggies.So, there you have it. Is it the equipment? Is the state of the art not up to recording violins? Is it me? [its o.k.-I can take it}. In closing,a couple of years ago,I had phone conversation with a well known person associated with a major speaker company about this. His response :[ paraphrased ] Violins are a problem--don't like 'em.  Any input will be appreciated. Thanks.
6119
pwerahera
125 posts
 
the proton d1200 amp can produce 540w/1000w/1500w   20ms          '450w/650w/800w  100ms                                                                         '380w/500w/520w  200ms                                                                      'duty cycle  500ms dynamic headroom at 8,4,2ohms 7.3db    'should be able to easily handle any crescendo that Beethoven,Mahler,or Orff can dish out,n'est pas?

What's the difference between Continuous RMS and Dynamic Power ?
https://usa.yamaha.com/support/faq/audio_visual/2483.html
Many people confuse these specifications, so I will try to give you a simplified, non-technical explanation. Continuous RMS Power, is the spec that really tells you how powerful an amplifier is. RMS power is expressed in watts. A typical specification might read 100 watts RMS into 8 ohms from 20Hz-20KHz at .01% THD. What this means, basically, is that the amplifier will deliver 100 watts into an 8-ohm speaker from 20Hz to 20Khz? This frequency range is basically the entire audio range that an individual can hear. The THD spec stands for Total Harmonic Distortion: This is the amount of distortion the amplifier will introduce into the original signal. Any high quality amp made today has extremely low distortion ratings. The human ear cannot hear anything under 2%. For the most part, when you are considering purchasing an amplifier, you can disregard the THD specifications.

Dynamic Power, is a little more difficult to understand. This is a test of the amplifier's ability to go beyond its continuous RMS power for a very short time period. We are not talking minutes or even seconds here. We are talking milliseconds or thousandths of a second. A musical transient peak, such as a cymbal crash lasts only a very short time. Dynamic power is usually measured into 8 ohms, but specifications are generally also published for 2, 4, and 6 ohm loads as well. To keep things from getting too complicated, we will concentrate on the 8-ohm figures. To measure dynamic power, an amplifier is fed a 1000 Hz signal for 20 milliseconds then allowed to rest for 480 milliseconds. The amplifier volume control is turned up until the amp reaches the clipping point. At that point, the amp has reached its instantaneous peak or dynamic power output. Like the continuous power rating, dynamic power is expressed in watts. The figure is usually significantly larger than the RMS power rating, and should not be confused with the continuous power ratings of the amplifier. A dynamic power rating into a figure such as 1 or 2 ohms does not mean that the amplifier can drive a speaker with a 1 or 2 ohm rating continuously. If you attempt that, the amplifier will either go into the protection mode or possibly cause damage.

PROTON D1200  continuous RMS power is 100 W at 8 ohms. This amplifier is NOT rated for RMS power at 4 Ohms which is the internal impedance of the Magnepan MG12/QR speakers. You got plenty of company to discuss for issues with mass violins. I am trying to give you a solution to at least minimize the problems related to reproducing mass violins in your system. 
larry5729's avatar
larry5729
1,009 posts
 
What about buying speakers that are made acoustically to match the instruments you like to hear.  I am sure there are speakers that reproduce classical music better than others.  It would be interesting to hear from those who have found the right equipment to best reproduce classical instruments.  I am sure cabinet design is a good source of the problem.  There are many in this group who know what speakers are best to reproduce classical instruments along with components.
twoleftears's avatar
twoleftears
5,318 posts
 
@6119  
Several years ago I copied tracks from a variety of CDs on to one CD-R so it would be easier to carry around when auditioning equipment.  One of the tracks was the first movement of the Barber violin concerto played by Shaham, exactly the recording you mention.  So we have a concrete data point in common.  I put the Barber on the CD-R precisely as a test of violin reproduction (as well as bass--those falling two-note bass figures in the background).

What I can tell you is this: the DGG recording is never going to be described as forgiving, but it can be played on equipment without inducing the slightest wince, grimace, or tensing of the muscles.  It just depends on the equipment in the system, because these days listening to that recording at home is a pleasant and rewarding experience.

While I'm at it let me recommend this recording of a consort of viols as a wonderful test of overall timbral reproduction of stringed instruments (as well as an excellent CD):https://www.amazon.com/Crye-TYE-HUME-TALLIS/dp/B000025DFV/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=crye&qid=1599586146&s=music&sr=1-1

rvpiano's avatar
rvpiano
2,687 posts
 
if you choose to replace your old amp, I would suggest a home trial of a neutral sounding one such as the Benchmark AHB2.  100 wpc, same as yours.  Sounds fine with massed violins in my system.
cal91
233 posts
 
larry5729...You are opening a can of worms when you imply that some speakers may be better than others at playing certain genres. I started a thread on this subject looking for speakers that were considered especially adept at playing classical, and particularly the violin, and I was blasted. More than one poster called the idea ridiculous and insisted that a good speaker will play all genres equally well. Some of them weren't very nice about how they said it.
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