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Help me understand "the swarm" in the broader audiophile world

I'm still fairly new out here and am curious about this Swarm thing. I've never owned a subwoofer but I find reading about them--placement, room treatments, nodes, the crawl, etc--fascinating. I'm interested in the concept of the Swarm and the DEBRA systems, and I have a very specific question. The few times I've been in high-end, audiophile stores and asked about the concept of the Swarm, I've tended to get some eye-rolling. They're selling single or paired subwoofers that individually often cost more and sometimes much more than a quartet of inexpensive, modest subs. The same thing can be said for many speaker companies that make both speakers and subs; it's not like I see Vandersteen embracing the use of four Sub 3's. 

My question is this: do in fact high-end stores embrace the concept of multiple, inexpensive subs? If not, cynicism aside, why not? Or why doesn't Vandersteen or JL or REL and so on design their own swarm? For those out here who love multiple subs, is it a niche thing? Is it a certain kind of sound that is appealing to certain ears? The true believers proselytize with such zeal that I find it intriguing and even convincing, and yet it's obviously a minority of listeners who do it, even those who have dedicated listening rooms. (I'm talking about the concept of four+ subs, mixed and matched, etc. I know plenty of folks who embrace two subs. And I may be wrong about all my assumptions here--really.)

Now, one favor, respectfully: I understand the concept and don't need to be convinced of why it's great. That's all over literally every post on this forum that mentions the word "sub." I'm really interested in why, as far as I can tell, stores and speaker companies (and maybe most audiophile review sites?) mostly don't go for it--and why, for that matter, many audiophiles don't either (putting aside the obvious reason of room limits). Other than room limitations, why would anyone buy a single JL or REL or Vandy sub when you could spend less and get ... the swarm? 


northman
mitch2
4,043 posts
 
@veerossi 
I’d bet if Duke and James joined forces with REL, they would sell the crap out of a wireless/ self-powered 4 sub bass array.
Your comment made me think of two reasons I have not tried a DBA yet, and something Duke (or somebody) could work on to help those of us who already own and use two great sounding subs:
  • first, I do not want to buy a new 4 sub set-up since I already have two really nice Aerial SW-12 subs
  • second, my room is already wired with dedicated electrical lines/outlets and all my system wiring is against one wall
  • however, I would be very interested in adding just two subs for the purpose of smoothing out the bass response and more evenly loading the room
  • I would also be interested if I could do this without purchasing two more relatively expensive SW-12s but rather if I could use different, less expensive subs
  • I would be even more interested if those two additional subs could receive their signal wirelessly since that would take away one of my biggest problems of how to get a signal to them 
tyray
657 posts
 
Help me understand "the swarm" in the broader audiophile world
@northman,

My intention is not to hijack nor misrepresent your stated purpose for this thread but to do exactly as you ask -  for this particular thread. 

Thank you, for asking the question.
tyray
657 posts
 
Your comment made me think of two reasons I have not tried a DBA yet, and something Duke (or somebody) could work on to help those of us who already own and use two great sounding subs:

@mitch2,
One of the things I’ve admired about Duke is he has always given advice and instruction on how to place any sub no matter if it’s only 1 or 2 of any sub brand you have and even trying to understand what type of tuning functions you may have on the back of you sub and how to use them.

If you do a Agon search you will be surprised at how many threads he has been a part off on what you ask.

There's also some links to some 'white' papers that break down the genesis of the distributed array technique that also surprisingly are in layman like terms  for easier understanding - check this out. https://mehlau.net/audio/multisub_geddes/
mapman's avatar
mapman
22,341 posts
 
Yes the debate has nothing to do with if it works or not.  .

lalitk's avatar
lalitk
5,575 posts
 
I agree with @mapman. IMHO, it has to with practicality which millercarbon and DBA advocates continues to overlook each time a sub discussion pops up.

Before I get flamed by DBA fanboys let me add, those who can justify 4 subs in their room, DBA probably makes sense. For rest of us, I say this; one sub is better than no sub and two subs is better than one sub.

Peace!
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