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Help me understand "the swarm" in the broader audiophile world

I'm still fairly new out here and am curious about this Swarm thing. I've never owned a subwoofer but I find reading about them--placement, room treatments, nodes, the crawl, etc--fascinating. I'm interested in the concept of the Swarm and the DEBRA systems, and I have a very specific question. The few times I've been in high-end, audiophile stores and asked about the concept of the Swarm, I've tended to get some eye-rolling. They're selling single or paired subwoofers that individually often cost more and sometimes much more than a quartet of inexpensive, modest subs. The same thing can be said for many speaker companies that make both speakers and subs; it's not like I see Vandersteen embracing the use of four Sub 3's. 

My question is this: do in fact high-end stores embrace the concept of multiple, inexpensive subs? If not, cynicism aside, why not? Or why doesn't Vandersteen or JL or REL and so on design their own swarm? For those out here who love multiple subs, is it a niche thing? Is it a certain kind of sound that is appealing to certain ears? The true believers proselytize with such zeal that I find it intriguing and even convincing, and yet it's obviously a minority of listeners who do it, even those who have dedicated listening rooms. (I'm talking about the concept of four+ subs, mixed and matched, etc. I know plenty of folks who embrace two subs. And I may be wrong about all my assumptions here--really.)

Now, one favor, respectfully: I understand the concept and don't need to be convinced of why it's great. That's all over literally every post on this forum that mentions the word "sub." I'm really interested in why, as far as I can tell, stores and speaker companies (and maybe most audiophile review sites?) mostly don't go for it--and why, for that matter, many audiophiles don't either (putting aside the obvious reason of room limits). Other than room limitations, why would anyone buy a single JL or REL or Vandy sub when you could spend less and get ... the swarm? 


northman
rixthetrick's avatar
rixthetrick
1,060 posts
 
@audiokinesis 
(Actually imo one sub may not always be better than no sub - many dipole owners have tried one sub and gone back to no sub.)
This thread and another also about sub woofers are really informative to myself. The advocates of multi sub array do make sense to me.

I already have a dual opposed firing single sub, I do like that the two drivers fire 180deg away from each other and cancel a lot of cabinet energies.
I have also an interest in slot loaded folded dipole design subs.

Have you heard or do you know of anyone who have combined a non ported sub with two or more dipole design subs? If I build one folded dipole, I am certainly doing two at the same time.




mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,102 posts
 
So to those stating to fix the room first for Pete’s Sake!, my experience is that it minimally effected my room and system’s bass performance but dramatically positively effected most everything else.
It seems i am deluded or in hallucinegic transe if you were right....

I fix my room and this had a tremendous effect on bass .... Clarity and quantity.... Your experience confirm my experience that PASSIVE only room treatment is insufficient... We need ACTIVE device controls also....

I re-mute myself....
rixthetrick's avatar
rixthetrick
1,060 posts
 
mahgister Yeah, but did you have a swarm or an array of sub woofers?
If you did not, he was very specific in saying that he did, for many years, before applying room treatment. And it was in other areas he found the more significant performance increase with correct room treatment. The sub array had benefits all on it's own, would be my guess?

mahgister, do you have, or did you have a swarm or array of multiple subs?
If not, this does not directly apply to your personal experience, it's evident that what I have with my one sub isn't the even close to the array experiences shared here.
clio09
3,356 posts
 
Have you heard or do you know of anyone who have combined a non ported sub with two or more dipole design subs? If I build one folded dipole, I am certainly doing two at the same time.

@rixthetrick, I currently use a DBA I set up with 8 sealed subs (I stack them in pairs) I made and am in the process of building the Linkwitz open baffle subs (W frame) but using a different set of drivers than the Seas that Linkwitz specifies. I will initially be subbing them in for two of the sealed subs and leaving the rest in place. We'll see how it goes.
rixthetrick's avatar
rixthetrick
1,060 posts
 
clio09 - I am very interested in hearing more about your experience with this. Thank you.
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