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the sound of massed violins in classical orchestral recordings

why do massed violins have this sort of gritty sandpapery reverberation in classical orchestral recordings?even in some sections of a piece, when the violins are playing softly in the background, you hear that gritty overtone more than the melody.when I listen to the Houston symphony in Jones Hall,sitting fourth row, facing the violin section, I don't hear that sound.I have three systems { two of them mid-fi ] and I hear the same thing-even with headphones.in all instances, the other parts of the orchestra are clear.  my main system : Vanalistine Trancendence 10 tube preamp,a 35 year old solid state Proton D1200 amp, [have tried NAD,Project, Musical Fidelity amps--they don't sound any better],Onkyo dx7555 CD player [Stereophile class B],and Project Carbon turntable with Grado Black 2 cartridge [ the Ortophon Red was too bright ] through Magnepan MG12/QR speakers.Tried a highly regarded Elac speaker--no change as far as the violins go, but way inferior to those dramatic Maggies.So, there you have it. Is it the equipment? Is the state of the art not up to recording violins? Is it me? [its o.k.-I can take it}. In closing,a couple of years ago,I had phone conversation with a well known person associated with a major speaker company about this. His response :[ paraphrased ] Violins are a problem--don't like 'em.  Any input will be appreciated. Thanks.
6119
glevinson
4 posts
 
Respectfully, your friend from the speaker company is clueless. There are literally hundreds of recordings that don’t suffer from the problem you’re referencing because the engineer and producer know what they are doing.  Here is a video that deals with some of the nuances of both recording and reproducing: https://youtu.be/h9dv9AVVHT4

The bottom line is some of the best mics to record violins or any acoustical instruments are being made now. Conversely ribbon mics of the 1930s were also marvelous at recording the great orchestras of the Golden Age. Look for Cleveland Orchestra with Szell and Chicago symphony with Reiner as a start and you will hear breathtaking sound. Let me know what you think of the video and what your conclusions are. 
denverfred's avatar
denverfred
252 posts
 
So many great posts on this one. You’ve all given me a great sense of relief as you report experiences that parallel mine.
After a virus-driven (bored) series of updates, cables and tweaks, I still get the orchestral hash under extreme volume passages. In 50 years of hifi, I always blamed my gear, or the recording, or some unknown soprano. I’ve got it down to a dull roar by treating my room and re-cabling, but still . . . .
What most of us are talking about here is IM distortion that is originating at the instrument. Darn harsh cellos! 
I watch many of the youTube classical videos (especially those originating in the Netherlands), so I suffer through the string problem often. These videos span a few years right up to today and the mics used and their set-up is evolving fairly rapidly. The sound improves—and then it doesn’t. Never fear, this blog has enough good ideas to keep me spending and tweaking until I get it right.
6119 OP
32 posts
 
glevinson : Watcfed the wonderful video. I was surprised by how clear and listenable the sound was though the tiny speakers in my laptop! The beautiful playing, the articulate discussion.Very interesting about the old and new mics and their spacing and the eye opening description of the roles of engineer and producer in recording classical music. I hope that many of the posters here will watch this video. Thank you very much.
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Have have a hard time calling anything related to the normal sound of an instrument IM distortion. Of course an instrument sounds different from afar as it does close up. Hopefully the recording engineer knows how to capture this so that what we hear on playback is at least close to the truth. Having lived with a violinist I can say with reasonable assurance from the recordings of soloist violins I have heard that it is easier to get a solo violin right than massed strings. But, given a good recording and the right playback system it is possible to get a reasonable facsimile.  
glevinson
4 posts
 
6119: Many thanks on your kind words. As a fellow audiophile, my intention was to demonstrate that great results can be achieved by making sure that every link in the recording and reproducing sound equipment is on a high level. While there is some thought and commitment involved, it is so worth it. 

Finally, as we live in the age of covid, where we may have more home time, we can search out small companies which are creating some of the finest tools for us to listen to our favorite music. They are worth searching out and auditioning with your equipment to discover how they fit in your life. 
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