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Help me understand "the swarm" in the broader audiophile world

I'm still fairly new out here and am curious about this Swarm thing. I've never owned a subwoofer but I find reading about them--placement, room treatments, nodes, the crawl, etc--fascinating. I'm interested in the concept of the Swarm and the DEBRA systems, and I have a very specific question. The few times I've been in high-end, audiophile stores and asked about the concept of the Swarm, I've tended to get some eye-rolling. They're selling single or paired subwoofers that individually often cost more and sometimes much more than a quartet of inexpensive, modest subs. The same thing can be said for many speaker companies that make both speakers and subs; it's not like I see Vandersteen embracing the use of four Sub 3's. 

My question is this: do in fact high-end stores embrace the concept of multiple, inexpensive subs? If not, cynicism aside, why not? Or why doesn't Vandersteen or JL or REL and so on design their own swarm? For those out here who love multiple subs, is it a niche thing? Is it a certain kind of sound that is appealing to certain ears? The true believers proselytize with such zeal that I find it intriguing and even convincing, and yet it's obviously a minority of listeners who do it, even those who have dedicated listening rooms. (I'm talking about the concept of four+ subs, mixed and matched, etc. I know plenty of folks who embrace two subs. And I may be wrong about all my assumptions here--really.)

Now, one favor, respectfully: I understand the concept and don't need to be convinced of why it's great. That's all over literally every post on this forum that mentions the word "sub." I'm really interested in why, as far as I can tell, stores and speaker companies (and maybe most audiophile review sites?) mostly don't go for it--and why, for that matter, many audiophiles don't either (putting aside the obvious reason of room limits). Other than room limitations, why would anyone buy a single JL or REL or Vandy sub when you could spend less and get ... the swarm? 


northman
pryso
1,939 posts
 
I hope this is not too far off topic but a quote here by bdp raised a question regarding dipole bass.  Anyone who can offer a knowledgable answer will be appreciated.

"The rear wave coming back to the woofer after it bounces off the wall behind it needs to be timed (1 ft. = approximately 1 ms.) so that the front and rear waves are in phase by the time they reach the listening location."

I've been aware of this time and distance relationship since reading about the Bell Labs experiments identifying the need to separate direct sound waves from reflected waves by at least 10 ms for clarity.  Thus a dipole speaker should be placed at least 5' our from the front wall (5+5=10 ms) for greatest clarity.

So how can it be calculated to assure rear waves are in phase for reinforcement?  I may be auditioning open baffle speakers, which includes the woofers, so how can I determine potential placement to simplify trial and error?

Concerning the swarm, I have heard a demo with that and was impressed.  But running wires and placement of four sub boxes will not be an option for me.
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,894 posts
 
I wondered if it was possible the bass traps simply didn't have the absorption (grunt) power to transform the energy from the subs, though enough to deal with the midbass??
The problem is standing waves in the room. Bass traps need to be where the standing waves are when they are reinforcing which sometimes might be near a wall but often is not, and they need to move dynamically from place to place as the frequency of the bass notes change. But they can't do anything about when the standing wave is causing a cancellation. So its an inelegant approach that simply won't solve the problem.
clio09
3,360 posts
 
@audiokinesis, and from a documentary I just watched, moving up the chain, it appears Geddy Lee’s inspiration is Jaco Pastorius.
dawgbyte's avatar
dawgbyte
325 posts
 
"The more things change, the more they change." William Shakespeare

I have two 15" Rel subs. One is setup at the front of the room on the right hand side and the other is facing towards the front on the left hand side of the room. I'm sure there's something better out there, but I can't imagine spending the money to try and surpass what I have.
twoleftears's avatar
twoleftears
5,318 posts
 
@northman  Excellent observation!!  Mix-and-match subs, but the orientation in the socket of the after-market fuse is absolutely crucial.
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