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Help me understand "the swarm" in the broader audiophile world

I'm still fairly new out here and am curious about this Swarm thing. I've never owned a subwoofer but I find reading about them--placement, room treatments, nodes, the crawl, etc--fascinating. I'm interested in the concept of the Swarm and the DEBRA systems, and I have a very specific question. The few times I've been in high-end, audiophile stores and asked about the concept of the Swarm, I've tended to get some eye-rolling. They're selling single or paired subwoofers that individually often cost more and sometimes much more than a quartet of inexpensive, modest subs. The same thing can be said for many speaker companies that make both speakers and subs; it's not like I see Vandersteen embracing the use of four Sub 3's. 

My question is this: do in fact high-end stores embrace the concept of multiple, inexpensive subs? If not, cynicism aside, why not? Or why doesn't Vandersteen or JL or REL and so on design their own swarm? For those out here who love multiple subs, is it a niche thing? Is it a certain kind of sound that is appealing to certain ears? The true believers proselytize with such zeal that I find it intriguing and even convincing, and yet it's obviously a minority of listeners who do it, even those who have dedicated listening rooms. (I'm talking about the concept of four+ subs, mixed and matched, etc. I know plenty of folks who embrace two subs. And I may be wrong about all my assumptions here--really.)

Now, one favor, respectfully: I understand the concept and don't need to be convinced of why it's great. That's all over literally every post on this forum that mentions the word "sub." I'm really interested in why, as far as I can tell, stores and speaker companies (and maybe most audiophile review sites?) mostly don't go for it--and why, for that matter, many audiophiles don't either (putting aside the obvious reason of room limits). Other than room limitations, why would anyone buy a single JL or REL or Vandy sub when you could spend less and get ... the swarm? 


northman
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon
12,531 posts
 
As I've said elsewhere, if only everyone simply believed in education and experience sharing without attacks or the need for everyone to agree on various opinions/perspectives the site would be a lot more useful (and sustainable).


Imagine there's no Heaven. Its easy if you try. No hell below us, above us only sky. Imagine all the people living for today.

Like, you know, a cow. Moo.
erik_squires
16,144 posts
 
I’m trying to model the behaviors I’d like to see in others.

One of the ways in which I’d like to behave is to say my peace and move on.

Just random thoughts apropos of nothing in particular.


Erik
noble100's avatar
noble100
2,419 posts
 
Hello Erik,

     My wish for you is to audition and experience the Swarm.  Possibly Duke or James Romeyn could arrange it?  Or, you're welcome to stop by my house if you're near Indy.
     You could then state your objective, apropos thoughts on the Swarm.  Perhaps say your piece and move on?  I know I'd find it very interesting.

Tim
erik_squires
16,144 posts
 

     My wish for you is to audition and experience the Swarm. Possibly Duke or James Romeyn could arrange it? Or, you're welcome to stop by my house if you're near Indy.
     You could then state your objective, apropos thoughts on the Swarm. Perhaps say your piece and move on? I know I'd find it very interesting.



Thanks.  I have no problem with the technology.  Just the interactions and people who've gotten in my grill.  As a result of that,  you all go swarming all you want to, wherever you want to, for as long as you want to, and let me not.
noble100's avatar
noble100
2,419 posts
 
erik_squires: " Thanks. I have no problem with the technology. Just the interactions and people who've gotten in my grill. As a result of that, you all go swarming all you want to, wherever you want to, for as long as you want to, and let me not."

Hello Erik,

     Rejecting swarming out of hand, without first-hand experiencing it, without maintaining an objective and open mind toward home audio solutions that are based on well understood acoustic and physics principles that have been validated and documented as being highly effective utilizing emprical scientific methods and research? And all because you perceive swarm users enthusiastically extolling its virtues as getting in your grill?
       Based on my recollection of reading your thoughtful, interesting and informative Audiogon threads and posts over many years, that I consistently perceived as commendably openminded  and objective, I consider your responses to swarming and its adherents to be surprisingly out of character. 
     Your reluctance to auditioning and experiencing the numerous benefits of a multi-sub swarm type distributed bass array system in your system and room, ultimately of course, will only be to your own detriment.  I'm just a bit surprised and disappointed that you're not more interested in giving the concept a try, evaluating the results honestly and objectively and sharing your thoughts and always interesting perspective with us all.  I'm certain you'd be pleasantly surprised.

Tim
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