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vinyl versus digital redux

Has anyone compared the sound of vinyl with the sound of digital converted from a vinyl intermediary ?

I am referring to 'rips' of vinyl made with high end, high quality vinyl playback systems, with
conversion to high resolution digital.
I find it nearly impossible to distinguish the two results.
The digital rip of a vinyl record sounds identical...or very nearly so...to direct playback of the vinyl.

If one has 'experienced' the foregoing, one might question why digital made without the intermediary of vinyl sounds so different from vinyl.   A detective story ?

We are talking about vinyl made by ADC (analog to digital conversion) of an amplified microphone signal and re-conversion to analog for output to the record cutting lathe, or from analog tape recording of an amplified microphone signal, and then....as above...via ADCl and back to analog for output to the cutting lathe.

Of course vinyl can be and is 'cut' (pressings made from 'stamper' copies the 'master' cut in lacquer) without digital intermediary.  Such practice is apparently uncommon, and ?? identified as such by the 'label' (production)

Has anyone compared vinyl and high resolution digital (downloads) albums offered by the same 'label' of the same performance ?  Granted, digital versus vinyl difference should diminish with higher digital resolution.   Sound waves are sine waves....air waves do not 'travel' in digital bits.    A digital signal cannot be more than an approximation of a sine wave, but a closer approximation as potential digital resolution (equating to bit depth times sampling frequency) increases.

If vinyl and digital well made from vinyl intermediary sound almost identical, and If vinyl and digital not made via vinyl intermediary sound quite different, what is the source of this difference ? 

Could it reside....I'll skip the sound processing stages (including RIAA equalization)...in the electro-mechanical process imparting the signal to the vinyl groove ?

Is there analogy with speaker cone material and the need for a degree of self-damping ?
Were self-damping not to some extent desirable, would not all speaker cones, from tweeter to sub-woofer, be made of materials where stiffness to weight ratio was of sole importance ?

Thanks for any comments.
seventies
seventies OP
67 posts
 
Steve and cleeds and others,

So studios do sell digital 'copies' of vinyl sources.

Do you agree that the audio result of initial digital recording, tape recording, and 'direct to disc' analog recording (via vinyl lathe cutting or lacquer to 'stamper' to vinyl) is distinct (and to many 'euphonic') so long as the music is played back from vinyl, whether or not that analog playback signal is converted to hi resolution digital ? 
If so, returning to the start of this 'thread', what imbues 'vinyl' with that sonic characteristic ?

I suspect by the process of elimination....which contributors to this thread greatly aided....that it is the electro-mechanical disc cutting and disc reading process, to which RIAA equalization is integral.
Is it the electro-mechanical cutting process ? Is it the electro-mechanical reading process ?  These cannot be separated.

The result of those two electro-mechanical processes can as you affirmed be rendered digitally and as such "indistinguishable from the lp source".

So why bother with lp's, turntables, cartridges and phono pre-amps ? Why not await more from companies like Jeton Audiophile Legends ?

One may, of course, wish to digitize an lp collection.  One may even feel that high frequencies (in particular) are far better preserved on lp's made 3 to 5 decades ago than on 'master tapes' of the same performances.

Respondents to this thread appreciate that such 'lp rips' must be done very well...or not done at all.

Again thanks
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cleeds
6,026 posts
 
seventies
Do you agree that the audio result of initial digital recording, tape recording, and 'direct to disc' analog recording (via vinyl lathe cutting or lacquer to 'stamper' to vinyl) is distinct (and to many 'euphonic') so long as the music is played back from vinyl, whether or not that analog playback signal is converted to hi resolution digital ?
No, I don't. The very best quality LP playback is very, very close to the best quality digital playback.

Of course, some people like LP distortion and will go out of their way to maximize it. They'll use warm-sounding phono cartridges, tube phono sections with gobs of distortion and their alignment geometry will often be out of spec. But they like the euphonic result, which is fine. But that's not my approach - I want sound as close to neutral as I can get, regardless of the source. I want whatever distortion is inherent to be as little as possible.
seventies OP
67 posts
 
Cleeds,
I'm not sure we're on different pages.
I am not talking about 'quality' connoting 'accuracy' of reproduction of a performance.
I am talking about a sonic characteristic, a sonic 'signature' if you wish, which is achieved only through the intermediary of vinyl.
Once that cutting to/reading from vinyl is accomplished the analog result can be converted to digital with preservation of that characteristic.
Were the case otherwise, why would one chose 'vinyl' or digitized playback from vinyl over high resolution digital recordings processed without intervention of vinyl ?
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Cleeds there is additional dynamic compression that takes place during the process of cutting a record. The noise floor of digital is much lower.
As far as accuracy and low distortion is concerned high resolution digital is far superior. This does not mean that it sounds better in all cases.
I was discussing one particular case in direct comparison. Unless you have done the same thing you are making assumptions and in reality have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Your latin is also a bit rusty. You can criticize me all you want. Have fun.  
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cleeds
6,026 posts
 
seventies
I’m not sure we’re on different pages ... I am talking about a sonic characteristic, a sonic ’signature’ if you wish, which is achieved only through the intermediary of vinyl.
That’s where we disagree. I don’t think vinyl has any such inherent magic, special sonic signature.
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