That's why, in my opinion, the preferred starting point is the loudspeaker,
Well, if you want a loudspeaker that is not demanding of both amplifier and the room, this seems to be the logical, if not canonical solution.
Best,
E
I'm never going to hear a megaspeaker in a good room am I?
Was thinking about something. There’s a thread about good $40K speakers which made me think that honestly despite hearing a lot of them at shows, I’ve never heard one in a decent environment. Now, perhaps we can argue:
But let’s not go that route. But I am thinking to myself, in well treated rooms the best speakers I’ve heard were merely mid-range Wilsons and Magicos. I say "merely" because they were under $40k, not because of performance. The two best speakers I’ve heard, in medicore rooms were the SF Stradivari and Snell A/III, and top of the line Vandersteen.
All the $40K + speakers I’ve heard have been at shows, and either very badly treated rooms, or in halls so big the first reflection point was like a mountain echo. Am I ever going to get to listen to $40K+ speakers in great rooms anywhere again??
As a result, I’ve developed a severe bias against the performance of mega speakers, because I only ever hear them in terrible rooms and have not heard one I’d spend money for, and honestly that's unfair to them.
If it doesn’t sound good anywhere, including a hotel room, is it really that good a speaker?
But let’s not go that route. But I am thinking to myself, in well treated rooms the best speakers I’ve heard were merely mid-range Wilsons and Magicos. I say "merely" because they were under $40k, not because of performance. The two best speakers I’ve heard, in medicore rooms were the SF Stradivari and Snell A/III, and top of the line Vandersteen.
All the $40K + speakers I’ve heard have been at shows, and either very badly treated rooms, or in halls so big the first reflection point was like a mountain echo. Am I ever going to get to listen to $40K+ speakers in great rooms anywhere again??
As a result, I’ve developed a severe bias against the performance of mega speakers, because I only ever hear them in terrible rooms and have not heard one I’d spend money for, and honestly that's unfair to them.
- ...
- 93 posts total
I, as well as many others, like the sound of music in rooms...not all rooms (is a dumpster a room?), but many of the ones I've lived in with furniture, fireplaces, books, windows (Oh NO...WINDOWS!), etc., as they can make your hifi rig sound like life and music in the real world. If you insist on Room Treatment and are afraid your leather couch is too "reflecty" and doesn't sound like a piece of sheet rock covered with astro turf, listen with a hat festooned with gerbil pelts...that should do it for you. And note that our dear Eric struggles with one note...just one. |
Duke, I think you explained it better than I could. I almost bought the Snells. I think I wet my pants the first time I heard them. I wound up buying the Sound Labs 845 immediate spiritual ancestor We are all stuck using residential size rooms. Choosing the right speaker is the most significant "room control" you can buy. It can also save you a lot in extraneous room treatment items. The problem with many of the most expensive speakers is that they are more omnidirectional which makes them sound worse in hotel rooms. But, they have exactly the same problems in residential settings. A speaker that can sound good in a hotel room can sound good anywhere. |
Thank you Erik and Duke for a good discussion about speaker radiation patterns,direct sound, early reflections, RT60 reverberation times and room acoustics in general. I feel like I'm in school, in a good way. You guys have got me reevaluating my acoustic strategy and making sure I'm comprehending everything correctly. In my recent systems, Magnepan dipole speakers with their figure-8 radiation patterns have been a constant, previously with a pair of 2.7QR and currently a pair of 3.7i. I've always sort of forged my own path, based mainly on research and experimentation, with how to set up and handle room acoustics and reflections with the somewhat unique challenges of dipole planar-magnetic panel speakers. I've settled on relying on the rudimental guideline that it's important for the direct sound waves from the front of the panels to reach the listening position first, with any reflected sound waves not reaching the LP for at least a half a second later, in order to maintain good tonal accuracy and stereo imaging. Fortunately, I have no doubts about my system and room having the very difficult and very important bass frequency response levels performing at an extremely high level. This is due to the Audio Kinesis Debra 4-sub DBA system I utilize, which provides a near sota solid bass foundation, either with or without acoustic bass room treatment assistance. Then there's the eternal question of how to handle the out of phase sound waves constantly being emitted from the rear of both Magnepan panels. Is it best to absorb this back wave, diffuse it or a combination of both? After extensive research, professional advice and experimentation, I decided to deploy a combination of absorbing and diffusing acoustic panels along my front wall behind the Magnepans, with very good results. Overall, I was heavily influenced in my room acoustics treatment decisions and strategy by Anthony Grimani based on these videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bbmWd00HYM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFbqJkjfABQ&t=285s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raAyF5ksbkk I agree that the preferred starting point of a system is the loudspeakers chosen, and I definitely prefer the presentation characteristics of Magnepans thus far as my starting point. My current preferred strategy on room acoustic treatment is to control the early reflections through absorption, don't over absorb anywhere and use a general combination of absorption and sufficient diffusion elsewhere to strike a beneficial balance between them, especially at the front and back of the room to keep things lively. Most importantly, I'm very pleased with my perceptions of my current room treatment efforts and my system and room's overall sound quality. I'm just curious, based on both of your recent very relevant discussion topics on this thread, how you two would evaluate my room treatment efforts? I understand we don't typically know what we don't know. I welcome all constructive criticism and utilitarian advice. Thanks, Tim |
- 93 posts total