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vinyl versus digital redux

Has anyone compared the sound of vinyl with the sound of digital converted from a vinyl intermediary ?

I am referring to 'rips' of vinyl made with high end, high quality vinyl playback systems, with
conversion to high resolution digital.
I find it nearly impossible to distinguish the two results.
The digital rip of a vinyl record sounds identical...or very nearly so...to direct playback of the vinyl.

If one has 'experienced' the foregoing, one might question why digital made without the intermediary of vinyl sounds so different from vinyl.   A detective story ?

We are talking about vinyl made by ADC (analog to digital conversion) of an amplified microphone signal and re-conversion to analog for output to the record cutting lathe, or from analog tape recording of an amplified microphone signal, and then....as above...via ADCl and back to analog for output to the cutting lathe.

Of course vinyl can be and is 'cut' (pressings made from 'stamper' copies the 'master' cut in lacquer) without digital intermediary.  Such practice is apparently uncommon, and ?? identified as such by the 'label' (production)

Has anyone compared vinyl and high resolution digital (downloads) albums offered by the same 'label' of the same performance ?  Granted, digital versus vinyl difference should diminish with higher digital resolution.   Sound waves are sine waves....air waves do not 'travel' in digital bits.    A digital signal cannot be more than an approximation of a sine wave, but a closer approximation as potential digital resolution (equating to bit depth times sampling frequency) increases.

If vinyl and digital well made from vinyl intermediary sound almost identical, and If vinyl and digital not made via vinyl intermediary sound quite different, what is the source of this difference ? 

Could it reside....I'll skip the sound processing stages (including RIAA equalization)...in the electro-mechanical process imparting the signal to the vinyl groove ?

Is there analogy with speaker cone material and the need for a degree of self-damping ?
Were self-damping not to some extent desirable, would not all speaker cones, from tweeter to sub-woofer, be made of materials where stiffness to weight ratio was of sole importance ?

Thanks for any comments.
seventies
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Atmasphere! I have two original copies of It's a Beautiful Day! I loved it so much I bought another copy worried I would play the one to death. 
Orpheus, you need to check out Channel D's website. I use their Pure Vinyl program which will library and store records on Apple computers.
It will even supply digital RIAA EQ but you have to have a phono stage with a flat output. I only use it for comparison's sake. As cleed opines recording albums in real time is a PITA. If I'm feeling lazy I just load up a digital playlist and let the computer go at it. I have just as many albums on the hard drive if not more. Playing vinyl I prefer it right off the diamond. 
I have heard many fine remasters of old stuff. As a matter of fact right now I am listening to a remaster of Seven Steps to Heaven. Granted I do not have an original to compare it to. Ignorance is bliss. If the music is OK, I'm OK. 
orpheus10
8,668 posts
 

Mijostyn,

"Playing vinyl I prefer it right off the diamond."

Why would you prefer it right off the diamond if you could hear the same thing off the hard-drive?

Wouldn't it be easier to relax in the "sweet spot" and not have to get up at the end of side 1 to flip the record over, and repeat that for each record.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying you don't hear the same thing when you load up a digital playlist and let the computer go at it?


Anyone who is not getting the same thing "off-the hard-drive" as "off the diamond" is not doing something right, because I am getting the same thing "off the hard-drive" as "off the diamond".


Is this a case of the "fox and the grapes"?
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
@orpheus10  As I have said, recording albums is tedious work. I like playing records. It is tradition, I have thousands of them, I like it.
I have thousands of files on the hard drive. There is always something I want to hear in either format so I do not have to spend a lifetime recording records. If you only had a few records and a few files it might make sense. For me, not.
orpheus10
8,668 posts
 

I must admit, it is time consuming and a bit tedious, but well worth the effort.


Enjoy the music.
Ag insider logo xs@2x
o_holter
978 posts
 
I also love Its a Beautiful Day. I have a promo copy of the LP that plays very well indeed. Must play it - thanks for reminding me! I remember White Bird, is just mesmerizing.

Seventies - thank you - I think the issue here is that magnetic tapes detoriate over time, while vinyl records don't, unless you bring them to parties, everyone dances on them - or, more seriously speaking, they have been played with a very poorly setup cartridge, something you cannot see when visually examining the record. All this happens - as every vinyl collector knows. The LP may look pristine but it sounds grungy since the actual groove has been harmed. But - apart from such problems - vinyl is "true to the moment", as far as I know. Comparable to bread fresh from the bakery, versus something re-heated ten years after.. Take your pick. I have a lot of cases, now, in my LP collection, where I have bought more recent remasters, and yes, they are sometimes very well done, but they aren't as fresh-sounding as the originals. The sense of air and treble bite is usually where I hear this most clearly. It should be said, with the best of the remasters, it is not so clear, like with the recent Vanilla Fudge first album on Mofi. It is 45 rpm, which helps "lift" the treble a bit, even if its doesn't fully substitute for the original.

So, the remaster may sound better than the original (like the Mofi Vanilla Fudge), but it is very seldom that I sell my original or early reprint LPs due to buying a new remaster. The remasters often sound a bit "civilized" compared to the unruly originals, with all their grunge and so on. The sound is maybe updated for a new audience used to streaming. But the music from this period wasn't meant to be "civilized" or "nice". It was meant to be awakening, unruly, and even revolutionary. If in doubt, listen to Spirit, Twelve dreams of dr Sardonicus. Preferably the LP.
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