TONEARM DAMPING : DAMPED OR NOT ? ? USELESS ? ? WELCOMED ? ?

@tyray : Thanks' again and for clarify to me too because many times I don't understand in precise way thetrue  meaning of what other gentlemans tell me.

R.

Dear @bukanona : "  Tonearm superiority isn't meant by tracking everything with all cartridges. It should do it also proper way controlling resonances and going fluently via deformations. ""


First is not the tonearm whom makes the tracking but the cartridge tracking habilities.

Now, everything the same the superior rtonearm is that one that permits that the cartridges tracks " everything " and I agree it should do it controlling resonance but this last sentence comes almost implicit in that tonearm because with out rigth resonance control the cartridge can't tracks in adequated way.



""  If to use only tracking test Telarc, HiFI news or even better Ortofon test record you'll find that most of the high end cartridges don't track everything. For designer it's quite easy to make suspension softer and to get 100 μm peak although sound generated by coils and in case of too much fluency in suspension sound level will be uneven.  "

Yes most high end cartridges don't track everything and is because are not mounted in the overall rigth damped tonearms.

In my arm that I'm using for some years now my Colibri tracks everything, Benz Micro LPS, Dynavector XV-1, Clearaudio Goldfinger, Ortofon Anna and A90, My Sonic Lab Eminnent, Lyra Etna SL and Kleos, Denon 103 and several other  cartridges I own or tested in my room/system.

No one of them comes with 100um spec, almost no manufacturer but Ortofon disclose that tracking spec.

Your " will be uneven " due to high compliance is false because other than me you can ask to MC2000 owners if they detected that " uneven " you mentioned. I owned 3 MC2000 but I own top cartridge performers with over 50cu spec and performs outstanding. ASll my vintageLOMC cartridges makes its tracking job, it depends of the tonearm where is mounted.

Btw, I own that very good Ortofon vintage Test LP ( as a fact I own " hundreds " of vintage Test LPs. The ones that used the Audio magazyne reviewers and some of the B&K. ) that is a D2D one.

As better the tracking groove modulations as better our sound we are listening because we have lower distortions and more signal MUSIC recorded in those LPs. Nothing substitute tracking characteristic and it's this characteristic what we must/should looking for when we want to buy or change a tonearm and/or cartridge.

Btw, Iown the Ultra 400, the ML140 and other Shure cartidge and own to the very top vintage models from Stanton and Pickering where in those 2 last ones I take out its brush because is way resonant and I prefer the quality sound with out the brush but in the Shure is welcomed.

M;aybe my tonearm knowledge is " poor " as you said but I think that don't have the whole first hand experiences I have with those over 150+ cartridges and over 40+ tonearms.

In the other side, as more live MUSIC events we attend seated at near field position as better our knowledge levels will be to try in some ways to uop-grade/improve our room/system base on those live MUSIC experiences because that kind of sound is what we should be looking for in our systems. Btw, when  @mikelavigne  made or makes changes in his room/system he made it for very good reasons and maybe he could share about that nera field position of his chair in his great room/system.

Something I learned through those near field live MUSIC events and probably the main subject is how sound the bass range and that's why I started to learn about and started to use my Velody subwoofers even I started a thread about:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/do-you-think-you-need-a-subwoofer/post?postid=310058#310058


An absolute statement is: as better the room/system bass range as better the overal quality of what we are listening through it.

And to have a better bass range reproduction we need ( like it or not. ) a well damped tonearm/cartridge combination. No single doubt about.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.

First is not the tonearm whom makes the tracking but the cartridge tracking habilities.

Now, everything the same the superior rtonearm is that one that permits that the cartridges tracks " everything " and I agree it should do it controlling resonance but this last sentence comes almost implicit in that tonearm because with out rigth resonance control the cartridge can't tracks in adequated way.

@rauliruegas  These two statements are in contradiction of each other and one occurs right after the other. Was this your intention? Obviously they can't both be true, assuming that by 'habilities' you meant 'capabilities'.

@rauliruegas,

Turn on your (english) spell check function. It will greatly help us and your learning english and writing experiences. I am a little confused as (english) spell check is already embedded in Audiogon discussion forum or on your laptop/desktop? Try using your desktop or laptop and not your cell phone, if you do and that will help.

That's one way I can tell your not using a translator because your mistyping and misspelling of words and the translator won't let you do that.

Right. Ralph I think he means "abilities" but whatever. There are facets of this issue I think we can all agree on.

The best tonearms follow a record's undulations without disturbing the function of the cartridge. 
There are cartridges that are better trackers but a bad tonearm will interfere with that capability.
A tonearm's effective mass including that of the cartridge and screws has to be matched to the compliance of the cartridge resulting in a resonance frequency between 8 and 12 Hz.
Fluid damping of the tonearm can be useful if the Q of the resonance frequency is high or if the resonance frequency is out of band. 

So, what does all this add up to? Everyone has to make up their own mind but, I think it is pretty obvious that you can not just jamb any cartridge into an arm and expect it to work well.

My own interpretation of this is; you want a tonearm cartridge combination with a low moment of inertia as it will follow the undulations of the record surface better. Added to this should be a camping system that flattens the record such as reflex or vacuum clamping.
In keeping with low inertia you want a tonearm with a low effective mass.
I personally would not do anything over 18.
You want a cartridge that tracks well that has a compliance that matches the effective mass of the arm. I personally will not look anything under 
80um. 
Finally if a tonearm has an available damping trough that is an added benefit (it has to be both horizontal and vertical) I would not use it unless it was absolutely necessary.