TONEARM DAMPING : DAMPED OR NOT ? ? USELESS ? ? WELCOMED ? ?


Dear friends: This tonearm critical subject sometimes can be controversial for say the least. Some audiophiles swear for non damped tonearms as the FR designs or SAEC or even the SME 3012 that is not very well damped in stock original status.

Some other audiophiles likes good damped tonearms.


In other thread a gentleman posted:


"  If a cartridge is properly matched to the tonearm damping is not required. " and even explained all what we know about the ideal resonance frequency range between tonearm and cartridge ( 8hz to 12hz. ). He refered to this when said: " properly matched to the tonearm ".


In that same thread that a Triplanar tonearm owner posted:


" This is the one thing about the Triplanar that I don't like. I never use the damping trough...... I imagine someone might have a use for it; I removed the troughs on my Triplanars; its nice to imagine that it sounds better for doing so. "


At the other side here it's a very well damped tonearm:


https://audiotraveler.wordpress.com/tag/townshend/


Now, after the LP is in the spining TT platter ( everything the same, including well matched cartridge/tonearm.  ) the must critical issue is what happens once the cartridge stylus tip hits/track the LP grooves modulations.

The ideal is that those groove modulations can pass to the cartridge motor with out any additional kind of developed resonances/vibrations and that the transducer makes its job mantaining the delicated and sensible signal integrity that comes in those recorded groove modulations.

 That is the ideal and could be utopic because all over the process/trip of the cartridge signal between the stylus tip ride and the output at the tonearm cable the signal suffers degradation (  resonances/vibrations/feedback ) mainly developed through all that " long trip " .


So, DAMPING IS NEED IT AT THE TONEARM/HEADSHELL SIDE OR NOT?


I'm trying to find out the " true " about and not looking if what we like it or not like it is rigth or not but what should be about and why of that " should be ".


I invite all of you analog lovers audiophiles to share your points of view in this critical analog audio subject. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT?


Thank's in advance.



Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.






Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas
Dear friends: This is the very well damped tonearm Technics EPA-100 that I own, read this information that per se tells you everything about the advantages and necessity to damp the tonearm/cartridge combinations:

http://www.edsstuff.org/docs/technicsepa100.pdf

the EPA 100MK2 is even better damped due that its arm wand instead to use nitride titanium as build material uses Boron/Titanium, I own too:

Btw, the AJ vandenHul reference analog rig is a SP10MK2 TT with EPA 100 tonearm and mounted the EPC100CMK4 cartridge, all made by Technics.

Lyra owner posted here in Agon:

"" IME tonearms were what Technics did best. In terms of quality, I consider the EPA-100MkII to be at the top of the Japanese-made tonearms. Even today, the MkII is more than competitive with most tonearms.

cheers, jonathan carr ""


R.

More useful information:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5864d96703596e675552b72c/t/58c8f0202994cabb5d41acad/148956368...

https://www.brinkmann-audio.de/inhalt/en/technical/resonances_in_analogue_playback.pdf

http://www.laudioexperience.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Bruel-Kjaer-Audible-Effects-of-Mechanical-...
@rauliruegas I quoted the two statements that were in contradiction to each other. I don't need to do it again. I asked about them to see if that is what you meant to say. From your rather acerbic response, apparently you did. In a court of law, any competent attorney would pounce on something like that, asking 'so were you lying then or are you lying now?'; contradictions don't go down well. That is why I asked. I really do think language is a great deal of the problem here. But in case its not, the simple fact is the cartridge can't do what its designed to do unless the tonearm does its job correctly. Its that simple. So no point in saying the cartridge can do this independently of the arm, which is what your post was saying, whether you meant it that way is a different story. 
Dear friends: As I posted in other thread I have mounted 3 of our self design tonearms alond other two ones.

Well, two the ones we designed share the same kind of gimball ABEC9 bearing and the other jewels and I have to tests 6 different build material arm wand and in all wecan use silicon damping for the cartridge or not.

The main arm wands I use are made  of: 2 wood, magnesium blend, 3D, and two other blended metal combination with wood.

In all circumstances the 3 tonearms using different arm wands performs really good and the cartridges trcks " splendid " but when in any one of them I use the silicon damping the whole performance change for the better. It's not nigth and day but the changes are easy detected especially at both frequency ranges.

Now, one of the other mounted tonearm is the AT 1503 where been a good tonearm I choosed it to make some tests adding a silicon oil paddle facility ( very hard task but I need to do it and test it. ).
Well, when I switch to the silicon oil damping the differences for the better ar night and day and cartridges with serious problems to track the Telarc 1812 those problems almost disappeared and the same with high velocity recorded high frequency groove modulations.

Several of these kind of tests were made it been at mi place 2-3 different audio friends and obviously through all the test sessions using the same LP tracks.

For me damping tonearm/cartridge subject is the way to go and I know ,because in that way several of you posted, that are more in disagreement with my advise that to agree with.
At the end this thread is for any one can shares his first hand experiences in the whole subject, the objectuive of the thread is not to find out whom is rigth or not.

Dick Olsher posted in 1995 this:

""" 

The perfect tonearm:


The role of the tonearm has been compared to that of the enclosure in a loudspeaker. In this analogy, think of the bass driver as representing the cartridge. The first important point is that it is impossible to assess the driver's performance without considering its interaction with the cabinet. The cartridge/arm combination should be viewed in the same light. The arm's effective mass should be compatible with the cartridge compliance to produce an optimal low-frequency resonance. Just as enclosure wall flexure and resonances may color a speaker's reproduction, so can arm resonances influence the overall frequency-response and time-domain behavior. Arm resonances, both lateral and torsional, should be minimal and well-damped.

From the perspective of the cartridge, the arm is essentially a "monkey on the back." As the stylus negotiates delicate groove modulations, the cartridge has to literally drag this monkey, kicking and screaming, down the groove spiral. Bearing friction at the arm pivot, sufficient to impede the motion of the cartridge, gives rise to distortion because frictional forces along the groove wall increase as a result. Thus, low bearing friction is an automatic prerequisite for a good arm. For a magnetic, velocity-characteristic cartridge, the differential velocity between the stylus and cartridge body gives rise to the output signal. Should the arm rattle the cartridge, the signal's amplitude and the system's frequency response will both be affected. This can happen when the arm bearings are loose and "chatter." Unfortunately, for conventional bearings of the gimbal or ball-race design, the requirements for low friction and tightness (no chatter) are contradictory; some compromise must be struck between the two. In other words, the tighter the bearings, the greater the friction.


The dynamic behavior of the arm is critical to overall performance. Real-world records are eccentric and warped. Trying to negotiate such a record subjects the arm to lateral and vertical accelerations. By far the most serious practical problem is that of negotiating a small-radius warp. As the stylus starts to climb the uphill side of the warp, the cantilever is compressed upward, which may significantly increase vertical tracking force. This is bad enough in itself—increased VTF accelerates record wear—but the cantilever may be displaced upward to the extent that the cartridge enters the twilight zone of nonlinearity: either because of suspension overload or operation in the fringe of the magnetic field.

On the downhill side of the warp the cartridge begins to lose contact with the groove. The effective VTF is reduced, which increases distortion, but the ultimate danger is that of complete loss of contact and groove skipping. What's required here is a nimble arm, dynamically able to keep the stylus in the groove while negotiating a roller coaster.

A figure of merit for assessing a tonearm's dynamic performance is the ratio of VTF to effective mass: the greater the better. This (with an important caveat) gives the maximum acceleration in gravitational "g" units that the arm can withstand before leaving the groove.

What we have ignored so far in the dynamical analysis of the arm are the effects of damping fluid and arm-pivot restoring forces. Damping is normally applied at the pivot of the arm in the form of a fluid. Used in moderation, damping is a good thing. It is not a magic potion that will somehow convert a poor arm into a good one, but it does help an already good arm perform even better by reducing the "Q" of any resonances. Used in excess, damping can backfire by reducing the dynamic capability of the arm. """"


As we can read seems to me that damping is welcomed.


R.





"In all circumstances the 3 tonearms using different arm wands performs really good and the cartridges trcks " splendid " but when in any one of them I use the silicon damping the whole performance change for the better. It's not nigth and day but the changes are easy detected especially at both frequency ranges."

Rauliruegas, How did the performance "change for the better." By listening? By observation with an oscilloscope? By what measure?  
I have a Townshend Rock Elite with  a Helius Omega. Sounds very good without the trough - sounds significantly better with the trough. For the uninitiated Townshend Rock turntables use a silicone damping trough at the headshell end. I have used other arms too and the step change is consistent regardless of arm

Would you have a car with spring suspension alone, or damping too? Playing the trough at the headshell resolves the resonance at the outset.

It's a shame I can't locate thee Professor Dinsdale white paper that explains this fully.