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TONEARM DAMPING : DAMPED OR NOT ? ? USELESS ? ? WELCOMED ? ?

Dear friends: This tonearm critical subject sometimes can be controversial for say the least. Some audiophiles swear for non damped tonearms as the FR designs or SAEC or even the SME 3012 that is not very well damped in stock original status.

Some other audiophiles likes good damped tonearms.


In other thread a gentleman posted:


"  If a cartridge is properly matched to the tonearm damping is not required. " and even explained all what we know about the ideal resonance frequency range between tonearm and cartridge ( 8hz to 12hz. ). He refered to this when said: " properly matched to the tonearm ".


In that same thread that a Triplanar tonearm owner posted:


" This is the one thing about the Triplanar that I don't like. I never use the damping trough...... I imagine someone might have a use for it; I removed the troughs on my Triplanars; its nice to imagine that it sounds better for doing so. "


At the other side here it's a very well damped tonearm:


https://audiotraveler.wordpress.com/tag/townshend/


Now, after the LP is in the spining TT platter ( everything the same, including well matched cartridge/tonearm.  ) the must critical issue is what happens once the cartridge stylus tip hits/track the LP grooves modulations.

The ideal is that those groove modulations can pass to the cartridge motor with out any additional kind of developed resonances/vibrations and that the transducer makes its job mantaining the delicated and sensible signal integrity that comes in those recorded groove modulations.

 That is the ideal and could be utopic because all over the process/trip of the cartridge signal between the stylus tip ride and the output at the tonearm cable the signal suffers degradation (  resonances/vibrations/feedback ) mainly developed through all that " long trip " .


So, DAMPING IS NEED IT AT THE TONEARM/HEADSHELL SIDE OR NOT?


I'm trying to find out the " true " about and not looking if what we like it or not like it is rigth or not but what should be about and why of that " should be ".


I invite all of you analog lovers audiophiles to share your points of view in this critical analog audio subject. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT?


Thank's in advance.



Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R.






Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Yes Bill, all that makes sense. Basically damping can be useful with cartridge tonearm mismatches or if a particular combination has a very high Q. Using a Kuzma 4 Point (the 11" one) horizontal damping made no audible difference with the Lyra Kleos and Ortofon Windfeld Ti. This is three people listening. Both cartridges have a compliance in and around 14 um/mN and are well matched to this arm. It would have been nice to evaluate this with an oscilloscope but one was not available then. I have one now but my current arm and the ones I lust after do not have nor do they need damping. The Friend with the Zuzma 4 Point lives on the other side of the state so this experiment is not likely to happen in the near future.
Rauliruegas, the Syrinx PU 3 was a top arm in it's day and it still has a big fan base. There are certainly arms today that are better.
I'm sure you love listening to music and perhaps you have wonderful hearing. But what you hear in your own personal evaluations may be interesting but it has ZERO scientific validity. It is only your opinion which I think you have made perfectly clear in spite of the language barrier. 
billstevenson
387 posts
 
Oh I guess I should have stated that an "O"scope was used in all my tests.  Really this tool is essential for these kinds of tests to be useful and repeatable.
lohanimal
659 posts
 
@mijostyn 

I have tried more than the one arm/cart with the trough including a Moerch DP6 that allows cartridge arm matching - however which way you do it the trough works its magic. It's just i use it with the Helius Omega - a very good arm.

I agree that cartridges do have some in-built damping but it is actually quite crude (it's a piece of rubber). The problem with a rubber spring is the opposite and equal reaction back - ie it's like puncing a ball against a wall. That's why car suspension uses damping whether through air or oil leaving the spring to do its part.

placing the damping at the front where the cartridge is creates a significant mechanical advantage and prevents spurious resonances going down the arm in the first place.

@kps25scTo some extent the trough improves a cheaper arm (i have used a Jelco/Mission arm - it does not take it totally out of the equation.

The Townshend excaliber has come in several guises - many are rega based, but the excaliber sold throughout the 80s was a proprietary design

@rauliruegas 

Funny you like the syrinx - it was re-made by Audio Origami - the chap that makes it is incredibly clever, and will happily speak to you. The current version i am told is a lot better than the Syrinx - i haven't got one so i can't say...

All said the guy from Audio Origami told me that one ought to try different oil weights with the Townshend. The CST/Wt was partially arrived at to stop it dripping - he says a thinner oil works and to try and use the thinnest weight that carries out the resonance control whilst also allowing the treble transients to shine through. I hasten to add that I personally don't think that the silicone weight commonly used robs treble energy - it simply cleans up splash.

I would love to hear a Maplenoll Ariadne as it used a trough, parallel arm and air-bearing.

I think on this note I will try a few different oil weights and try and report back on the thread - silicone oil is readily available for about £3.50 - £5.00 per bottle from radio control car/model shops in precise wt/cst. 


Post removed 
mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 
Raul, do you think this is the only tonearm I have ever owned. My current turntable is my old stand in. I sold all my other two turntable because I will be getting a Dohmann Helix as soon as vacuum clamping is added to the design. At this moment I plan on putting two Schroder LT's on it. It does not have nor does it need a damping trough. One will have the Clearaudio Charisma in it. The other will have a Lyra Atlas Lambda SL.
As for my system you can see it on my system page. I promise you won't like it.
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