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Millercarbon's Mega Vibration Control Journey

Vibration control is such a huge, and hugely important, topic it deserves a thread of its own. There was a time I thought it nuts to say such a thing. In fact I wrote a letter to the editor excoriating them for wasting my time on the goofy idea that clamping components between shelves could have any effect on sound at all, let alone be worth spending good money on a rack designed to do just that. This was the Michael Green rack, and thanks to my closed mind and dismissive attitude I never did bother to try and find out for myself if there was anything to it.  

Important Lesson Number One: Don't be so quick to dismiss things just because you can't understand how they could work. 

Couple years later unpacking a McCormack DNA1 amp the Owner's Manual says the included spike can be used to improve sound quality. Well now. As crazy as it still sounded this time its Steve McCormack, and he's already given me the spike, so what do I have to lose? Much to my surprise it did indeed improve the sound. Not a lot. But definitely more detail, clarity.  

This is very early 1990's. There is no internet. I know precisely zero audiophiles. Until stumbling upon this one guy at work who says oh yeah and put your CDP on a phone book, and another one on top. Which sounded even crazier but the guy was serious and this being the 90's we all had phone books laying around so I gave it a shot. This time it was only the most barely perceptible improvement, but it was there. If you really listened for it. So not much. Then again, free. Wrapped some fabric around it, ran the CDP like this for quite some time. 

Around this time I'm shopping for components for my new listening room when this guy is more excited about something called Black Diamond Racing Cones than the amp or whatever he was trying to sell me. So I get 3 of these things and they're so much better than the phone book its hard to believe! Well, okay, it was a phone book. Got to compare against something, right? 

These Cones are so good I take them to this Seattle audiophile club and show them around all excited and.... nobody cares. Except this one guy who goes on and on about how he has tried phone books, tennis balls, racquet balls, styrofoam, cones, spikes, on and on everything under the sun, he's tried it all there's just no way he's gonna be impressed- he makes this very clear to me- but okay you're the new guy let me borrow em why not. But they're not gonna work. No way. 

Next day this guy calls me up gushing going on and on how great these are what are they again where did you find em how many can I get? I actually wind up becoming the Washington State distributor for Black Diamond Racing selling Cones, Shelf, all of it. This guy winds up like me, pretty much everything on BDR.  https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/8367  

A lot of what I knew about vibration control back then was based on my own experience with BDR, and learning from owner DJ Casser. This resulted in what became my guiding principles of vibration control: Mass, Stiffness, and Damping.
128x128millercarbon
mammothguy54's avatar
mammothguy54
953 posts
 
I have always been supportive of room treatments.  Even in my college dorm room I used carpet samples tacked to the walls and heavy cloth tacked into the corners of ceiling/wall.  I have kept at that ever since, albeit with much nicer applications than carpet samples tacked to the wall.
I got into AC power cleansing a couple of years ago.  I just upgraded to a Niagara 3000.  Earlier this year I learned more about vibration control and have been applying that to my system using Symposium Acoustics products.  Next upgrade is a Symposium Acoustics equipment rack, shipping out to me after this weekend.  I have learned a lot about vibration control but realize there is plenty more to learn.  This thread is a very good one for me.  I am reading it daily.  I hope there are some new additions in the next few days.  I'd like to hear more from others as well as MC.  I'm always looking to learn.  And the fun is to apply it and hear the positive results.  Thanks guys.

@bigkidz yes indeed, buying better components delivers better audio quite well.  But then, if you "go through all of this stuff" you realize much superior results than just plopping down the components, connecting them, and turning on the system.  Try these things discussed in this thread and you will be amazed at the benefits.  You will hear your music like never before.  Truly stunning.
millercarbon's avatar
millercarbon OP
12,531 posts
 
The feedback problem I had with springs under the turntable is a damping problem. Its a problem because there is a certain range of frequency and amplitude level where we want the spring to be a spring. To let the shelf or component move freely. Damping factor by definition interferes with this. But we do want damping, just a certain very well defined amount.

This is where the story catches up to where we are in the real time here and now. Because the last week or so I’ve been looking into this and now happy to say have found a really good solution: Townshend Pods.

So good in fact I’m done writing for the night, got some listening to do which is a whole lot more fun.
oldhvymec
5,101 posts
 

bigkidz2,358 posts11-13-2020 8:49amProbably better to just buy better components then to go through all of this stuff to begin with IMO anyway.

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Ok I’ll bite.. which one? We’re all on a journey, which one first, or just dump the whole bunch? What do you recommend? What does better mean?

Guys like me, I’m not the rich kid on the block, or the "new one either".

Some stuff I CAN’T or would NEVER pay the price, others would..

I dropped off a guy last night.. Give me the system he had, I’ll take it.
BUT If I had to pay for it, I’m sorry to say, under 1/10th of his budget and that’s a push, for me.. It’s more like 1/20th. 25,000.00 is a lot for me.. I have lots of vintage gear, But what I listen too, That’s a whole different thing.

I’m handy though, REAL handy, I’ll do my own, AND still get happy..

Regards
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,201 posts
 
At least half the upgrades moves and more are the result of ignorance and comes from a great frustration more than from the necessity to do so....

It is my experience.... I cannot prove it but i listen to my 500 used vintage system smiling at any possible upgrade like it would be unnecassary...( diminishing return law)

Embed rightfully anything before upgrading something....

The greatest increase in S.Q. comes from the 3 embeddings implementation not from an upgrade of an electronic component most of the times.... There is exception for sure.... I will never pretend than a 20,000 speakers is on the same footing than a bad pair of cheap speakers for example....

A low cost amplifier cannot trash a Berning amplifier for example, even my extraordinary Sandui AU 7700 will be beaten....

But rightfully embedded i will live with it without even looking for any replacement....

If the piano sound does not come from the speakers no more and inhabit the room in 3-d, you are there with the Sansui or with the more refined Berning..... The difference really comes from a rightful embedding more than from the amplifier upgrading..... The 2 amplifiers are myth and legend on their own anyway and the 2 are very good....

Vibrations and resonance controls are the beginning and the more easy task between the 2 other embeddings (electrical and acoustical)....Try to think about it.....This thread is an occasion to do so....Dont upgrade before thinking....

:)





oldhvymec
5,101 posts
 
Vibrations and resonance controls are the beginning and the more easy task between the 2 other embeddings (electrical and acoustical)....Try to think about it.....This thread is an occasion to do so....Dont upgrade before thinking....

:)

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Well said, I’ve select my stuff for what it can do. Doesn’t mean I’ve pulled ever last drop out of it. I’m just now 9/10 of the way done BEFORE set up, in 2 30 year old rooms. BOTH were built with sound in mind..
I just had to retire to get it the way I like it. My two hand built the house, I’m gonna finish the house...

Vibration was addressed when we poured the foundation, I used friction piers on stem walls. Double up on the girders and floor pinning..

Electrical, the friction piers are the house BOND, the earth ground is hooked to every pier... Every pier is 10 feet in the ground.. Every 4 feet..
16 piers outboard, 6 piers inboard.

Acoustics were addressed when built.. Front wall is a 3 foot deep 15 foot long, 8 ft tall BASS trap and equipment racks. That area is a solid concrete foundation 2 feet deep, 3 foot wide and 15 foot long.. You just open the THREE trap to access equipment, and or dampen the room real quick.. depends on the music..It was and is used for a closet, BUT that wasn’t the original intent, Don’t tell the wife..

NOW to clean the crap out of here and get it done.. No one is gonna do it for me... Everything is here...

I been collecting stuff for this swan song for years...IT’S TIME..

Stupid heart attacks, slowed me down, I feel GOOD...Pain in the stomach/back to tell the truth... WEIRD...

I was use to givin’ them, not having them... :-)

SAY MC how the heck are you doing? You all fixed up now or what?
Still reelin' about the Turnover I bet.. I am.. Weird year!!

Vibrate on good man, vibrate on..

Time to feed the chickens.. Come on dog..

Regards

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