Actually @audiorusty, I think the DBX would work. I could run XLRs from the DAC to the XLR inputs and run all XLRs out to my amp and sub. Thanks, this may be a better analog option instead of the DSP.
What is Floyd Toole saying about extra amplifier power and headroom?
I've been reading Floyd Toole's "Sound Reproduction The Acoustics and Psychoacoustics of Loudspeakers and Rooms" and came across a passage that I wish he went into further detail about. It has to do with whether having amplifier headroom has any noticeable improvement in sq. He happens to be talking about getting the bass right in small rooms, but in doing so, he also touches on the use of a larger amp for extra headroom:
It's the last part ("useless headroom") that I'm curious about. I have notoriously hard-to-drive speakers (Magico Mini IIs). Although the recommended amplification is 50w - 200w, in my experience, that's a bit of an underestimation. I'm driving the Minis with a Musical Fidelity M6PRX, which is rated at 230w @ 8ohms. (The Minis are 4ohm.) The combination sounds excellent to my ears at low to moderate listening levels, but I notice a slight compression in the soundstage at higher levels. My listening room, while small, is fairly well treated with DIY panels made from Rockwool, sound-absorbent curtains, and thick carpeting. So I don't think I'm overloading the room. But I have wondered if an amp with far more power than what's suggested (more headroom) would drive the speakers with a little less effort.
Those of you familiar with Toole or with driving speakers with power to spare, what are your experiences? If I went with, say, a pair of monoblocks that drive 600w @ 4ohm, would the extra headroom address the compression I'm hearing at higher levels? Or am I wasting my time and, potentially, funds that would be better spent elsewhere?
Thanks!
Remedies for unacceptable situations typically included spending more money on a loudspeaker with a “better” woofer (without useful technical specifications, that was a lottery of another kind) and a bigger amplifier (for useless headroom ...
It's the last part ("useless headroom") that I'm curious about. I have notoriously hard-to-drive speakers (Magico Mini IIs). Although the recommended amplification is 50w - 200w, in my experience, that's a bit of an underestimation. I'm driving the Minis with a Musical Fidelity M6PRX, which is rated at 230w @ 8ohms. (The Minis are 4ohm.) The combination sounds excellent to my ears at low to moderate listening levels, but I notice a slight compression in the soundstage at higher levels. My listening room, while small, is fairly well treated with DIY panels made from Rockwool, sound-absorbent curtains, and thick carpeting. So I don't think I'm overloading the room. But I have wondered if an amp with far more power than what's suggested (more headroom) would drive the speakers with a little less effort.
Those of you familiar with Toole or with driving speakers with power to spare, what are your experiences? If I went with, say, a pair of monoblocks that drive 600w @ 4ohm, would the extra headroom address the compression I'm hearing at higher levels? Or am I wasting my time and, potentially, funds that would be better spent elsewhere?
Thanks!
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- 120 posts total
@diamonddupree You should contact FT and ask him. https://www.linkedin.com/search/results/all/?keywords=Floyd%20Toole%3A%20Acoustical%20consulting%2C%... |
Sounds like things are going well and as they should. Your main amp is not working anywhere near as hard covering only down to 90hz. It’s like putting the same size engine in a much smaller car. Also the sub is better cut out to handle the lowest bass and that’s all it has to do. Perfect! You still need a DAC and yours is still doing the same thing it was before. It either sounds better now or not. That’s all that matters. If you notice some thing not there that was before you could always try something other than miniDSP to do the same thing. Or even just an analog active crossover. Many ways to skin the cat. But I have only heard good things about mini DSP to date. |
Hey Diamond, Here is a link to a DBX analog crossover. https://dbxpro.com/en-US/products/223xs The biggest difference between this and the MiniDSP and the PA2 other than the one being analog and the others digital is that the MiniDSP and the PA2 can do everything the 223xs can plus much more, such as time alignment between your sub and mains, equalization, different style crossover slopes, driver protection and I believe user created preset memories so you can tune your system for different genres if you so desired. The 223xs can only perform crossover functions and its slope is predetermined and not changeable. Though that slope is the most widely used slope, at least amongst active crossovers. In full disclosure I have not actually used a MiniDSP and I am assuming it's capabilities are similar to the DBX. I have reservations about the conversion going on inside the MiniDSP, which seems to make my DAC an afterthought.I think I understand what you are saying here, but the MiniDSP or any type of crossover cannot replace your DAC. They have completely different jobs. |
Hello diamonddupree and all, I was searching for more info on anything Toole has stated about amp headroom but couldn't find much. But I came across an older AVS Forum post along the way that I thought you and others on this thread may get a kick out of reading, It's from about 2003 and it describes his own home system at that time which is interesting. And he even talks about a type of loudness wars in movie soundtrack mixing he noticed back then, in which the soundtracks were mixed for everything to be loud, the cinema operators would turn down the master volume in the theaters and, as a result, some of the dialogue on scenes was not loud enough. It reminded me of engineers raising the overall loudness of cds and crushing the dynamics in the process. He used Revel Salon 2 mains positioned upside down, other Revel surround speakers and 4 subs in his system at that time. Here's the link: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/revel-owners-thread.710918/page-482#post-52485977 Tim |
- 120 posts total