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Arcam, Musical Fidelity questions...

So I need a CD player, mostly just concerned with good redbook CD playback. Mostly rock with jazz on occasion. I had narrowed it down to the Arcam FMJ CD36 or the Musical Fidelity A5, but as I've been doing research the thing that keeps sticking out to me is the Arcam FMJ CD23T with the ring dac.

So my question to anyone with experience with these players (or other suggestions for players I'm not looking at) in the mid price range (trying to stay around $2K). First do like the Arcam CD23 better than the CD36/33 and then how do you compare it to the Musical Fidelity A5. I realize this is subjective but would appreciate any opinions you'd like to give.

Thanks in advance for your input.
trestles
jkalman
298 posts
 
The FMJ CD23 uses completely different DACs and design than the FMJ CD33 and FMJ CD36. So using a 23 to compare the 33 or 36 to anything else is not going to be helpful. The 23 uses the ring DAC designed by dCS. Some people think it sounds better than the wolfson DACS used in the 33 and 36. I have listened to both the 33 and 23, and I liked the 23 better, but i still didn't prefer it to the Meridian G08 I also auditioned, but this is another price range. I found the 33 lacked the ability to provide cohesiveness to the musical elements in recordings. The 23 had a problem with timing, which I noticed while auditoning it with one album I listen to a lot.
trestles OP
4 posts
 
I really appreciate all the responses, I agree that the Ayre would probably be the best of the bunch but while my amp to my pre does run via a balanced connection. The pre does not have a balanced input for the CD player, so I think the 5% bump in performance I'd get over the CD23 (running single ended) is probably not worth the $1,300 more (used) that I'd have to pay.

As a pure value proposition it appears the CD23 is the way to go. I'm waiting for the FMJ CD23T to surface and then I'll try to pick one up.

Thanks again.
john_z
178 posts
 
I own the original FMJ cd-23 (not the text version) and it's been a great-sounding, reliable player. Decodes HDCD, too. (not sure if the newer players still do that). I have never a/b compared it directly to the newer 33 or 36 in my system, however.

I worked in a shop that sold Arcam (and Meridian, among other things) during the late 90's to early 00's and had the chance to get product training from the Arcam factory reps on the features/benefits of the Ring-Dac design when it was first coming to market in their players. It certainly was ahead of it's time in 1999 for a $2k player and I suspect that's why they can still hold their own today and sound great. I spent time in the shop listening to the cd 23 compared to the then-current Meridian 508-24 and bought the Arcam. I just couldn't justify the huge jump in cost for what to me was not a night/day difference in sound. To me the Meridian was a touch dryer-sounding and there was something about the Arcam player that really reeled me in to the music.

The main reason the Arcams no longer use the Ring-Dac is that they only licensed the technology from DCS for a short period of time. I never heard of the difficulty to manufacture/reliability issue as a reason to discontinue it although I suppose that's possible. I suspect cost was probably a bigger factor, though. Also, the Ring-Dac in the Arcam player is not the full-blown spec found in DCS gear, rather Arcam used the major elements of the DCS design to create a custom chipset to be used first in their Alpha 9 and later FMJ series players. It's like getting the low-fat version of the DCS stack, Sounds great, without the guilt! If you are on a budget, you might want to try to find an Alpha 9 which will cost less than an FMJ series player and still have most of the performance.

As for comparing the sound to an Ayre or MF, I can't help you there. But my experience with the FMJ series Arcam is that it's very well made gear and it's fair to say the performance will hold it's own against more expensive equipment from other manufacturers even today. Of course it's all a matter of personal taste when you get to that level of performance anyway. Good luck! JZ
jkalman
298 posts
 
Trestles, I don't know if they still have it, or if you are interested, but the Arcam FMJ CD23 I tested (not a 23T) was a demo model they were selling at Accent on Music in Mount Kisco, New York. I felt bad not buying it after the taking it home to demo it.

I A/B tested it at home vs. my Denon DVD-5910 and found my 5910 was much better sounding (probably because of the new Burr-Brown 1792 chips -- seems anything with these chips is much better than previous generation chips on the market in the same price ranges, the Ayre C-5xe is another example which also uses 1792s -- for instance all the items that have the chip seem to be getting A ratings or top ratings in whatever class they are in, which to me seems a sure sign that the chip itself has more to do with it than any individual engineering done by a company using the chip). If you are willing to spend 1k more after finding a 12% discount you can have the Denon 5910 which will play everything including CD, and I find the CD on it worlds better than the Arcam 23... That's just my 2 cents worth.
trestles OP
4 posts
 
Thank you Jkalman you've sent me off in a whole new direction and I'm now very interested in the Denon DVD-5910 (which is surprising because I never thought I'd by anything Denon). You're right the Burr Brown 1792 is getting great reviews everywhere. I also really like the idea of having one box for everything that performs at at an audiophile level.

One question I have after doing some research on the unit: there is an outfit that advertises here on audiogon called Underwood Hifi and they do a a mod to the 5910. The mod brings the price up to around $5K. It is obviously difficult to audition an upgraded unit so my question is does anyone here have experience with these upgraded units or are they able to discern whether they appear to be worth it. I certainly don't have the techinical skill to do so...

Thanks.
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