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Preamp Input for Coincident system - Don Sachs, deHavilland, LTA, Joule Electra?

Hi all, I'm looking to spend around 2k on a pre-amp (either new or used) to pair with my Coincident PREs (currently using their Frankenstein mono-blocks as amps; input impedance of 100kOhms). 

I'm looking for something very natural sounding, with good body, some warmth, and -importantly- it must have a remote.  The PREs are very sensitive up on top, so I need clean highs. 

I've been reading a lot of threads and have a few contenders.  Am hoping to solicit some input from anyone who might have compared the following (with PROs / CONs listed):

1.  Don Sachs SP14 - good reviews, available in budget new / long wait to get a unit
2.  LTA MZ2 - some awesome reviews, available with 10-day trial period / some "meh" revies, perhaps a bit of a "clean" sound?
3.  deHavilland  UltraVerve 3 - good reviews mentioning the "relaxing" nature - a good key word for me / new it is out of budget at 3k
4. Joule Electra LA-150 MKII - in budget used, reviews mention strengths in "tone" & "texture" - highly desirable for me / a fairly old product  

Other things to note... 

I'm currently running a PS Audio PW DAC directly to my amps and listen to all types of music; perhaps currently tilted towards "modern" music with electronica and indie influences.  I stream Tidal via ethernet via PS Audio's Bridge II card in the dac.  

While I'm sure others will criticize the DAC, I really like the PWD and it has compared favorably to both a DirectStream (the music became less natural and more analytical) and Lyngdorf TDAI 3400 (the music was very smooth, but slightly less natural with a less well delineated soundstage). 

Unfortunately, the PWD has a bad volume control (throwing away bits at under 50% volume) and the new PREs really show that distortion off.  As such, I don't like listening at low volumes... hence the desire to add a pre-amp. 

Also, obviously I'd love to get Coincident's 101D pre-amp, but I need the remote, so it doesn't work for me.  I tracked the remote version for a long time and was hoping to save up money to purchase, but apparently it was plagued by technical difficulties and often needed service (presumably that's the reason Isreal discontinued it). 

Appreciate any input.

- Chris
128x128cal3713
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Hi Chris,
Thanks for the updated post today as I find your comments very interesting (As usual). The Truth line stage has received universal praise over the years and an outstanding review from Arthur Salvatore (For whom I have much respect for). A friend of mine had the Truth for well over a year in his system. He enjoyed it quite a bit but has replaced it with a Backert tube line stage which he finds better sounding.

You have very similar results with your move to the Don Sachs tube line stage which of course is active. Both of these experiences are interesting. In theory the the simpler Truth unit or a direct DAC to amplifier should be superior by removing the more ’complex’ active component from the signal chain.

There’s no substitute for actually listening and comparing. Real life encounters don’t always correlate with theoretical expectations or predictions. No doubt there are circumstances where some listeners prefer a direct source approach or using a passive component. Numerous variables are involved.  I can understand and appreciate the modifications you’ve done that further improved the sound quality. I’ve had very good results using Duelund capacitors for example.

Chris I’m quite interested in the future comparison between your current upgraded/modified Don Sachs (6SN7 based) and the DHT line stage. Should be very informative (And a lot of fun).
Charles
cal3713's avatar
cal3713 OP
1,421 posts
 
@charles1dad Indeed, I first heard about the duelunds from you and as always found that I heard the same thing when I put them in my system. I've currently got them on my pre tweeters and as output caps in both my dac and pre. I've tried a number of different caps and never heard better. I'll certainly update with some details of the Radu Tarta (Shiny Eyes, simplepleasuretubeamps) build. Thanks for all your posts, you're one of the few people with whom I find perfect opinion overlap when I try the same equipment. So valuable to have that information.

@mresseguie I made the updates in a number of steps. The only one I can't totally disentangle is the impact of the silver wbt rcas (installed concurrently with the solid core silver signal wire).  The primary upgrade I'd suggest is the output cap upgrade. I know a lot of people like the miflexs, but I found the duelunds to sound better in every way. I also preferred mundorfs to the miflexs, which just sounded flat and two dimensional in my system. Both duelunds and mundorfs produced much better 3d imaging.  You can read a bit more about all my cap comparisons on my system page (I wrote a lot due to boredom). 

It's more involved, but next I would consider replacing the stranded duelund signal wire with a solid core alternative (I use vh audio solid silver in cotton). People correctly talk about the wonderful tone of the duelund wire, but I have found that stranded wire blurs the imaging. My three DS inputs have the vh audio silver, stock duelund, and a single strand of the stock duelund run through a Teflon tube (you don't need 16ga speaker wire for small voltage preamp signals and tiny wires work just fine, see phono hookup wire, for example) so it's easy to do comparisons. I believe anyone listening to my system would be able to immediately distinguish between the three and would prefer the silver wire, then the duelund single strand, then the 16ga duelund. Again concurring with Charles, the solid core silver sounds more real than copper to me. I replaced all my amp, dac, and internal speaker wire with solid silver too and have never regretted such modifications.


charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Hi Chris,
Thank you for your kind comments. I find your listening observations in regard to good quality solid core silver wire on the mark. For many years in multiple threads I’ve read where some describe silver as edgy or bright. I have to say this hasn’t been my experience by a long shot. I have found silver to actually sound naturally warm and displaying full body tone /harmonic overtones while simultaneously sounding open and transparent. Overall quite organic and realistic.
Charles
charles1dad's avatar
charles1dad
10,250 posts
 
Chris, 
A further comment.  You re-wired your Coincident Pure Reference Extreme speakers with silver. When I visited Israel Blume (Coincident owner/founder) to audition the just introduced (2009) Statement Line Stage he mentioned he didn't care for silver wire. Now I have enormous respect for Israel but on this topic we respectfully disagreed.  I have no doubt that your Coincident PRE sound fantastic with the silver re-wiring.
Charles 
cal3713's avatar
cal3713 OP
1,421 posts
 
@charles1dad Indeed, replacing the PREs' stranded copper with solid silver in teflon produced an immediately apparent decrease in distortion and increase in realism and naturalness. I attribute some of that to solid core vs stranded and some to silver vs copper. It's nice when science and subjective sound quality so clearly align. 

I've read some argue that the reason people don't like silver is that it is allowing them to hear problems that were previously masked. And indeed, the one time I preferred copper to silver, I later discovered I had a cold solder joint that was introducing distortion. Once it was fixed the silver path was superior. 
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