"Musical" subwoofers? Advice please on comparing JL subs


I'm ready to be taught and I'm ready to be schooled. I've never owned a subwoofer and I'm not so hot with the physics of acoustics. I've had my eye on two 10" JL Audio subwoofers, the e110 ($1600) and the f110v2 ($3500). I hope this is a simple question: will the f110v2 be more "musical" than the e110?

Perhaps unnecessary details: I'm leaning into small bookshelf speakers, mini monitors with limited bass, for near-field listening in a small room. I don't want to rock the casbah and rattle the windows; I want to enhance the frequency range from roughly 28hZ to perhaps 90 or 100hZ: the lower notes of the piano, cello, bassoon, double bass, etc. I think I'm asking: will one of those subwoofers produce a more "musical" timbre in that range? Is spending the extra $2000 worth it in terms of acoustic warmth and pleasure? More generally, are some subs more musical than others? Or is that range just too low for the human ear to discern critically? 

I know there are a lot of variables and perhaps my question can't be answered in isolation. If it helps, let's put to the side topics such as room treatments, DSP and DARO, debates about multiple subs, debates about using subwoofers at all, and the difficulties of integration. Let's assume a fast main speaker with limited bass. I'm not going to put a 12" sub in the room. While I'm not going to put four subs in the small room, I would strongly consider putting in two, and it would of course be much more economical to put in two e110s. This, though, would only lead to the same question now doubled: would two f110v2 subs sound more musical than two e110s? Also, I'm sure there are other fine subs out there but I'm not looking for recommendations; if it helps to extrapolate, consider the REL S/510 and T/5i. 

I realize that I may be wildly off with all this, and I know that the best way to find out is to try them out. I'm not at that point yet. I'm simply curious about the "musicality" of different subwoofers. 
northman
I agree with what has been posted in this thread, more subs is better, a lot better.   I am currently running three subs as that is what fits my 10,000 cubic foot room the best.   Each new sub added very noticeable improvement in smoothing things out, eliminating boomy spots, and making the bass very musical.   I also do not feel that in my case I need a 4th sub as my two main speakers are the very large Byston Model T signatures which each has triple 8 inch woofers, so the main speakers alone have 6 woofer drivers.   I installed an Axiom Audio EP800V4 at the left side position which is their monster dual 12 inch driver sub which stands around 48 inches tall, to the rear I installed an Axiom Audio EP500v4 which is basically a single 12 inch driver version of the EP800, and to the right side I put in a Bryston Model T sub which is a triple 8 inch driver, 48 inch tall sub; the same exact drivers as used in the Model T main speakers.   All of the subs are perfectly matched as Axiom Audio builds all of Brystons speakers and subs, even the amps are the same.

Axiom V4 sub amps all use the fully adjustable phasing controls which are a must.  Once I have my subs placed in the sweet spot of where they work best for the room, I get down on the floor next to the sub and slowly rotate the phasing control until I hear the best in phase presentation of the music content.   Its very evident, the bass signals just stop fighting each other and suddenly become one harmonious signal with maximum smoothed amplitude.   And it doesn't matter where you are in the room, the bass is the same.  It only takes 30 seconds to phase the speaker and once set, you just forget about it.

OP, if you have not purchased any speakers as of this moment, I'd suggest that you look at Axiom Audio and for your room size I would consider their EP500.   It's a little larger than your 10 inch JL's, but its a very musical sub.   If you can afford them, the Bryston Model T subs are fabulous with triple 8 inch drivers and I have this one crossed so that it covers the upper most range of bass into the very low end of mid's; they are expensive!  Like around $6K each.
But if you have a budget of $3500, I'd get three EP500's and place one on each side of the room and one to the rear.  Then phase them for the room and you will have some fabulous lower end music which will not be muddy at all!    Another important area to keep in your planning is the amps in the subs themselves.   Most all of the amps out there are class D amps with switching power supplies.  The switching supplies have very little capacitive reserve so if you are playing content with a lot of bass, they will top out easily and not give you what you want.  If you have a class D amp with a large capacity Linear power supply with a lot of capacitance, there is a ton of head room to let the drivers hit their capabilities without running out of steam; that was another reason I went with Axiom subs, they have massive linear power supplies (you'd expect that with anything coming from Bryston).  If you end up with just one sub, you will have a muddy swamp no matter how much you try to move the thing around and play with EQ or whatever else.  It just won't work out well.   I might also add that the real wood veneer Black Ash is stunning!  It's a nice satin raised grain finish which is just gorgeous.  My two main Bryston Model T's are in satin Santose Rosewood which too is the most beautiful speaker I have seen; but the Black Ash is just as nice in a different way.
If you are adding a powered subwoofer, you have just added a big messy tone control. Like it or not.  The idea of signal purity has gone right out the window. 

:-)

Merry Christmas
Erik,
I suspect that the OP is planning on buying a powered sub.  I believe all JL subs have built in amps.
Wow--such incredibly thoughtful responses. I simply love that there are so many approaches to finding the right sound (for each room and listener). And, yes, I’m looking at powered subs.

@fastfreight, that’s a mighty, mighty post. You should be the OP here as both you and your system are so deliberate! Your post gave me a lot to think about.

@slimpikins5, your post has also opened my thinking (and I’ve been wanting to hear those Bryston speakers).

I don’t mean to hijack my own thread but after reading these posts I’m now curious about sub integration software. Is there something out there that is known for being effective and relatively simple? I’m not gifted with the science of it but I’m probably more competent than I sound in this thread. A quick glance suggests that many people have used the XTZ Room Analyzer. Any thoughts? I know there’s free software floating around; I just want something that is straightforward to use. 

Part of my thinking is that the Fathom has the DARO system that is well liked, so if I don’t get the Fathom it might be good to have another method for setting up the room dynamics as much as possible. I also think it might be fun for me to learn more about the way that sound works. I wouldn’t have to skip the graphs in the online reviews and jump straight to the conclusions! If the software is effective, I could buy two subs--JL e110, REL, Axiom, etc--for the price of one Fathom AND the mic/software. Can I really put TWO subs in a 10’ x 11’ room?

I’m not trying to complicate things here! It’s fun for me to think about these projects.
Northman,

First off, do yourself the best favor you could ever do in this sport, go listen to the Bryston Model T's.   Most likely you will find the standard 'Passive Crossover' version out there; that is what my pair started out life as.  I run tremendous power here with my large space, 2000 watts per channel at 4 ohms and I decided I wanted to upgrade my T's to the 'Signature' version which uses massive, Mil-Spec built (gorgeous circuit boards with huge air core wound inductors) external PX-1 crossovers with triple dedicated inputs on the back of the speakers for each section.  Ian at Axiom wanted me to ship the speakers back to him for the conversion and James Tanner at Bryston supplied me the pair of PX-1's.   I decided to do the conversion myself as I have a nice cabinet shop in my barn with all of the equipment needed and that way I don't have to pack up two massive speakers on a pallet to ship to Canada and risk damage.   It took me about three days of work to complete everything using OEM parts Axiom shipped me.   The difference in performance with the PX-1 is just breathtaking!   Find the Signatures to listen to.

Secondly, you should really look at the Axiom EP500V4 , this is a fabulous Sub; plus the amp is designed with a DSP circuit which will not allow the sub to be over driven or distort, you cannot kill these speakers.  It's all Axiom/Bryston proprietary designs and ALL of the components are made in Canada, no overseas Chinese stuff.  SVS was completely built in China and uses switching power supplies from what I saw (I burnt up six of their subs, both amps and drivers).  JL I don't know much about but I believe from what someone told me that they use some Chinese components.

Thirdly, I think that if you are using properly designed gear, you should not be using any room correction type software to EQ your room.   I have Anthem for my preamp and it's a wonderful piece with powerful ARC software with a fancy Mic.  But after running it and allowing the computers to 'balance' the room, I turned it off and went full flat with just my Model T's and the amps/preamps and 3 subs.   Hands down, no software EQ  at all, flat just beat the hell out of the software.   When I spoke with James at Bryston, he told me that they never use any software room correction in their spaces and Ian at Axiom said the same thing.   Properly designed equipment should not need anything other than your own playing with speaker placement and location and phasing; which is far more fun too.

If you happen to be in Northern New England, you are welcome to stop in for a listen before you do anything.