2. speakers
  3. 162495-139027

"Musical" subwoofers? Advice please on comparing JL subs

I'm ready to be taught and I'm ready to be schooled. I've never owned a subwoofer and I'm not so hot with the physics of acoustics. I've had my eye on two 10" JL Audio subwoofers, the e110 ($1600) and the f110v2 ($3500). I hope this is a simple question: will the f110v2 be more "musical" than the e110?

Perhaps unnecessary details: I'm leaning into small bookshelf speakers, mini monitors with limited bass, for near-field listening in a small room. I don't want to rock the casbah and rattle the windows; I want to enhance the frequency range from roughly 28hZ to perhaps 90 or 100hZ: the lower notes of the piano, cello, bassoon, double bass, etc. I think I'm asking: will one of those subwoofers produce a more "musical" timbre in that range? Is spending the extra $2000 worth it in terms of acoustic warmth and pleasure? More generally, are some subs more musical than others? Or is that range just too low for the human ear to discern critically? 

I know there are a lot of variables and perhaps my question can't be answered in isolation. If it helps, let's put to the side topics such as room treatments, DSP and DARO, debates about multiple subs, debates about using subwoofers at all, and the difficulties of integration. Let's assume a fast main speaker with limited bass. I'm not going to put a 12" sub in the room. While I'm not going to put four subs in the small room, I would strongly consider putting in two, and it would of course be much more economical to put in two e110s. This, though, would only lead to the same question now doubled: would two f110v2 subs sound more musical than two e110s? Also, I'm sure there are other fine subs out there but I'm not looking for recommendations; if it helps to extrapolate, consider the REL S/510 and T/5i. 

I realize that I may be wildly off with all this, and I know that the best way to find out is to try them out. I'm not at that point yet. I'm simply curious about the "musicality" of different subwoofers. 
northman
m-db's avatar
m-db
940 posts
 

After an in home comparison with an older JL Audio, Velodyne, a REL and their owners, we concluded the F113/A.R.O. and the DD-18 were similar in presentation after their auto optimization. The 13" JL was every bit as full bodied as the 18" to well beyond stupid levels.

The JL's minor shortcomings are that its room optimization is auto only and its XLR only output makes slaving compatibility difficult with their e series and other RCA input equipped subs. Velodyne's Manual EQ allowed for a more customized crossover setting used on all six EQ presets which all have slightly different EQ settings below the crossover region. Remote control made the Velodyne, or any sub, interactive. 

Following the REL setup instructions, which are basically identical to their current flagship product, the $9K Studio III was impossible to properly locate due to the length of its supplied proprietary cable in that room but easily remedied. In comparison it integrated poorly and lacked definition. Its presentation basically added low level pressure. Without a direct in room comparison it could seem musical or preferable.

A manually adjustable Q multi-band parametric filter that can be adjusted to your taste/musicality and match most any speakers crossover region*. Considering a processing subs tonal flexibility, addressing most room issues and the ability to more closely match most any future speaker choice, I find signal processing well worth the extra cost.

Obviously one signal processing subwoofer won't eliminate a rooms nulls and modes just as a basic sub array does not equalize. Most any crawl-test located sub should easily perform its best at the listening position. All the best with your search. 

https://embed.widencdn.net/pdf/plus/jlaudio/951tqlzfvg/FathomV2_MAN.pdf?u=ndijqi https://embed.widencdn.net/pdf/plus/jlaudio/4q4tkbykk5/CR_1_MAN.pdf?u=ndijqi

*Look up the User Interface Manual pages 10-11, Frequency Response Parameters Screen.http://velodyneacoustics.com/pdf/digitaldriveplus/DD+Manual.pdf

https://3634088.app.netsuite.com/core/media/media.nl?id=199928&c=3634088&h=13336210fd30bf778...

erik_squires
15,993 posts
 
EQ alone is better than no EQ if it's removing big peaks. This lets the overall sub volume come up.

EQ + optimal placement + bass traps = Glory

I may have mentioned this before, but if your room is rectangular, basic, consider the Room EQ Wizard room simulator as a less back-breaking alternative to locating ideal subwoofer location.
slimpikins5's avatar
slimpikins5
191 posts
 
Tuberculin, Class D is not a digital amp. Class D is just one of the next levels of amp design nomenclature. They have Class A, Class B, Class A/b, Class D so on. People always seem to think that Class D means digital, it is not. In fact where Class D really shines in most designs due to some amps not having a lot of very expensive feedback circuit designs is in the lower frequencies. Class D amps can suffer from upper frequency harshness if they do not employ fancy feedback designs. For Subs, Class D is probably the best option which is why most companies use it. It’s very efficient, produces huge power with almost no distortion at low frequencies, very low loss and heat which A and A/b amps make a lot of heat as they are not terribly efficient.
The best of all worlds is to have a good class D amp section coupled with a very nice Linear Power supply, large toroid transformer and a lot of capacitance for reserve head room. If you ask the manufacturers of the subs what type of power supplies they use, most will tell you that they have a switching type supply which has little headroom and therefore runs out of fuel fast.
m-db's avatar
m-db
940 posts
 
My apologies, The Velodyne User Interface Manual is no longer coupled with the link I provided.  
https://www.velodyneacoustics.com/pdf/digitaldriveplus/DD+UserInterfaceManual.pdf
tuberculin
81 posts
 
@slimpikins

I know what you are saying. The class D is a switching amp, just like a wall wart. I don’t like the sound. SS amps typically sound similar to me.
Series T/i uses the same Class A/B power amplifier sections with large, high current power supplies, precision-wound toroidal transformers and an amazing reliability record that has powered almost 100,000 RELs.
In this case I take exception. The RELs are beyond your expectations. That is why I chose it over the Class D JL.

If you look at the way a Class D operates is chops the signal up similar to digitizing it. Yes they can make them sound pretty good with lots of power, but it don't sound as good to me.

Thank you and have a nice day.
More to discover