Not Thrilled with Vandersteen 2CE Sigs - where is the first place to work on?

WOW! Why the vitriol?  As a dealer for many years just trying to keep the effect of the grille in perspective. All Vandersteen’s are designed to be listened to with the grills on for what ever reason he chooses. Richard has told seminar attendees that the grills on the lower cost speakers allows him to put more of ones money into the drivers, crossovers and out of sight low diffraction time aligned enclosures. Only he knows if that is a worth while compromise but I can tell you they would not sell without grills because the inside is not finished. Maybe you would make a different choice if you were the designer and outsell him, no one is stopping you.  Many on this forum promote numerous components passionately because that is part of the hobby. Thank goodness not many are as passionately negative and I doubt Richard or Wendel lose any sleep over the fact you won’t own their products. Back to helping audio enthusiast get better sound and enjoyment from their music.
 JohnnyR

JohnnyR, good response, and points well taken. :) Forgive me for coming on too strong. When I argue points in regard to technical aspects of design and system building, I can become intense. I think your reply was on target and well balanced.  

Yes, I am aware of the insides of the speakers and that they are not finished. You make the one defensible argument for the grills; more money put into the internals, and in that Richard is correct, it’s a solid design argument. That can be a defensible decision to select a speaker with a grill. In fact, if I were in a situation where I was forced to use a budget speaker, the lower end Vandys would be high on my list of options for that reason - despite the grill cloth finish. (I hope the community sees that this does not conflict with my previous statement that I would not now use a speaker with a permanent grill).

Thankfully, I do not have to compete in the speaker market! Some of these guys are killing themselves - I know the situation with some smaller speaker makers who do not have the advantage of economy of scale, and it’s might tough. I admire any speaker maker, including Vandersteen and Magnepan, who strive to give a good performance for the dollar. That is never in dispute with me. As someone who was at one time a Mid-Fi hobbyist, I will always be grateful for the option of a HiFi speaker at a good value.

Guys, I have done that comparison of a pair of 2's with covers on and covers removed.  It was in the late 90's at a dealer who had to install new socks for a customer so we started to play.  None of us hear any difference.  Richard knows how to design a top sounding speaker in the price ranges he plays in.  

They aren't everyone's cup to tea though.

I did some bypassing in a 2CE Signature's crossovers. They were using 3 electrolytic capacitors in series to filter out something in the tweeter. I bypassed them with Teflon V-Caps. The caps were .01uf, well, very well within the normal +/- 10% tolerance for capacitors, and the tweeters sounded horrid. I substituted other tweeters, and they sounded fine, so it was definitely a problem with the tweeter they used. When you use 3 electrolytic capacitors in series, you are compensating for quite a problem as normally you just use 1 capacitor. Capacitors of low quality, like most electrolytic capacitors are, are like dound sponges, absorbing detail. Anyway, normally I would suggest upgrading the components in the crossovers, but don't try it in the 2CE Signatures. This may not be true of the original, or any other versions, but the original Signature models had thid issue. 

Here's the thing. Everyone has different preferences where music is concerned. I love to hear differences between cables, I am not at all sure that I could do so with especially older Vandersteens. Some prefer that, Vandersteens are, shall we say, smooth and warm? Lovers of that sound would likely call my system cold and harsh. To me, my system is pretty close to being there. The sound stage is well defined and there are plenty of spatial information, instruments are pin point, I just lack depth of sound stage. Many would dislike that amount of information. Older Vandersteen speakers are a treasure if you like them. If not, keep looking. Don't argue about other people's druthers concerning music. Not all car lovers love old boat Caddys, or old muscle cars, or McClarens.