My point is that dynamics are a matter of volume. A speaker that can hit 110dB without compression is going to be more dynamic than a speaker that can only get to 100 dB even if it is less. efficient. Just a matter of power. Horns are very dynamic because they go very loud. They do it with less power because they tend to be very efficient. As far as sound quality goes, it's a toss up.Thermal compression occurs with all voice coils. The less efficient the driver, in general there will also be greater thermal compression as the speaker is being asked to deal with more power. As the voice coil heats up (which it does on each individual bass note; yes, they can heat that fast) its ability to move the speaker cone is reduced. Result: lower efficiency speakers tend to have lower dynamic qualities as well and unless you move away from a voice coil M.O., you can't throw more power at it, more power makes it worse. IOW the louder you play, the more compressed it becomes.
Speaker sensitivity vs SQ
My first thread at AG.
Millercarbon continues to bleat on about the benefits of high sensitivity speakers in not requiring big amplifier watts.
After all, it's true big amplifiers cost big money. If there were no other factors, he would of course be quite right.
So there must be other factors. Why don't all speaker manufacturers build exclusively high sensitivity speakers?
In a simple world it ought to be a no-brainer for them to maximise their sales revenue by appealing to a wider market.
But many don't. And in their specs most are prepared to over-estimate the sensitivity of their speakers, by up to 3-4dB in many cases, in order to encourage purchasers. Why do they do it?
There must be a problem. The one that comes to mind is sound quality. It may be that high sensitivity speakers have inherently poorer sound quality than low sensitivity speakers. It may be they are more difficult to engineer for high SQ. There may be aspects of SQ they don't do well.
So what is it please?
Millercarbon continues to bleat on about the benefits of high sensitivity speakers in not requiring big amplifier watts.
After all, it's true big amplifiers cost big money. If there were no other factors, he would of course be quite right.
So there must be other factors. Why don't all speaker manufacturers build exclusively high sensitivity speakers?
In a simple world it ought to be a no-brainer for them to maximise their sales revenue by appealing to a wider market.
But many don't. And in their specs most are prepared to over-estimate the sensitivity of their speakers, by up to 3-4dB in many cases, in order to encourage purchasers. Why do they do it?
There must be a problem. The one that comes to mind is sound quality. It may be that high sensitivity speakers have inherently poorer sound quality than low sensitivity speakers. It may be they are more difficult to engineer for high SQ. There may be aspects of SQ they don't do well.
So what is it please?
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Mahgister, This will be my last reply to you because you continue to demonstrate no ability to understand or from where I am standing even attempt to understand. You just get your self all in a huff and go nay nay nay about stuff you are grossly and woefully lacking knowledge on. You embarrass yourself. It is a fact verified by science that speech recognition is greatly improved with some early reflections... Which one and the timing with late reflections is an acoustical complex problem not to be solved by dogmatical ignorance... Clearly you don’t understand the discussion, but feel free to clog the thread with ramblings. Reproduction of sound/music, is NOT the same as creation of sound/music. Most music is mixed near field in setups that tend to have little in the way of early reflections. I am sorry that you cannot understand the difference between recording speech in an anechoic chamber and playing back speech recorded in a regular room and then played back on stereo speakers in an anechoic chamber. Have you never used headphones? Floyd Toole specifically talks about using reflections to gain a sense of space. That is a taste thing. Gain space, loose imaging. You will note in my comment about imaging of stereo speakers in an anechoic chamber being laser focused. Want to guess why that is? Try to think more, and contradict me without adequate information less. You may learn something. «I expect few people have actually heard stereo speakers in an anechoic chamber. Contrary to popular opinion, it is not bad at all, with pin point natural imaging.»Complete non sense... Again, you clearly do not understand, even though I repeated it, several times, that creation of sounds/music is much much different from reproducing it. I don’t know what else I can say except spend more time reading (listening) and understanding and less time reacting. You will be farther ahead. The rest of your diatribe / attempted attack on what I wrote is just more of the same so wasting my time pointing out what you wrote that is wrong (probably all of it, I got bored reading it) would waste my time and clog the thread. I will leave you with a little tidbit. Do you know what a lot of enterprising hobbyists do who can’t afford anechoic chambers, and need better measurements do when building speakers? .... They take them outside. Why? -- no reflections (again! except the ground as noted). Have a nice life Mahgister. p.s. "Sound in an anechoic chamber sound a bit like headphone, said Floyd Toole, the sound is in our head" ..... this is not remotely true. Not at all. I am not sure why Floyd Toole said it, and several, including me, who have heard stereo playback in an anechoic chamber called him on out on it. Usually (almost always) people only have 1 speaker in an anechoic chamber, so it is quite possible he never actually heard stereo playback in an anechoic chamber even with all his experience and was talking off the cuff. I was doing contract research on some advanced signal processing and had multiple speakers in the chamber. IF, and it is a big IF, you actually thought this through, in an anechoic chamber, with stereo speakers, all the social clues are there for angular position, depth, and some simulated height potentially from frequency shaping. None of that changes in an anechoic chamber. In fact, absent reflections, these items are all clearer. |
alexberger330 posts You don't have to have a highly efficient speaker to overcome dynamic compression in normal usage. As the article points out, there are methods of voice coil design, speaker design, material choices, etc. that can all mitigate these problems, hence probably why there are 100's if not 1000+ speaker designers, but very few professional driver manufacturers, and why top speaker companies design their own drivers. It is also a reason why active speakers will be necessary for the absolute in sound recreation. |
Reproduction of sound/music, is NOT the same as creation of sound/music.Ok i will not answer to all your distortion of my points... Except these one... Pure "Reproduction" of sound/music is IMPOSSIBLE in practice... It is a path where each foot is placed on diverging choices.... The management of these choices are what i called a "recreation" of what was a musical creation in a living stage or room...But you dont answered that point at all...You only call me ignorant like it was an argument....Recording engineer by the way are not only scientist but artist for this reason... I cite Toole about reflections and someone who contradict him, just to relativize your own DOGMATIC affirmation that all primary reflection are bad... You distorted my intention like usual..Read your own posts before answering me . Or keep a red string in your head....Even late reflections can be good if wisely used by the way... I contested not, the fact that nature lack walls and reflections, 😊 but your false assimilation of nature and an anechoic chamber, remember?.... Here also you distorted my intention... I will let you with a tidbit to pounder also with the same arrogance you always keep with any " ignorant audiophile"... Why do you think speech is badly perceived in an anechoic chamber? A clue: Most headphones have ALSO a room with reflections...This is their shell.... I already have a life and i try to not attack other audiophiles with my dogmas....It is not your case... Practical acoustic is an art based science not a science, like medecine is an art by the way... «Ignorance come first from what we know, not from what we dont understand»- Anonymus Smith |
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