Help! Spakers damaged during shipping?Paid insurance (with proof)being told not Insured?

Original shipping containers designed for shipping, packaging obtained from the original manufacturer, is the required minimum - for insurance on packages to be in effect.

Otherwise... fraud would be the norm. Where people ship broken old unwanted gear, at low prices and low values and try to make a high value insurance claim. This would be a daily occurrence and some would even venture as far as trying to make a career out of it.

Thus, original shipping containers only. Otherwise, no insurance claim is valid. It is in the fine print for all insurance or claims disputes regarding all major shipping companies or organizations. Unless otherwise stated directly in the insurance and shipping agreements.

This is why the pros, the big and constant long term shippers with large amount of items to be shipped, make the buyer pay the shipping. Where the items are collected on the makers dock, by the buyer’s shipping company. And,a s soon as the product is touched by the shipper, on the makers dock, any damage or issues are the fault and the concern of the buyer, and has nothing to do with the maker.

I’ve seen it happen, right in front of me. Where a full skid of product was destroyed by the shipping company, right on the docks. This is called ’FOB’ Shipping (from our base), a type of ’buyer collects item’ shipping. Where the buyer sends their shipper to our organization and ’takes it from there’.

IF the shipper is the seller, then it is the responsibility of the seller, until it is dropped off and signed for, by the buyer or final destination point. Until then, all claims, negotiations and the like - sit solely on the seller’s shoulders.

IF the buyer signed for it and accepted the package, even the financial party can do nothing about it, and a small claims court can back that up. Meaning, if an item is shipped, and the buyer accepts the package and then opens it up to find a can of smashed orifices, it is their problem. They’ll have a hard time, though, as the claim control lies solely with the seller.

What has to happen, is that one has to slow down the delivery driver and open the package in front of them and then reject it if it is broken or smashed. So, it is best to do this at the shipping depot by having the parcel held for pick up. and then open it up in front of the staff there. and, with such witnesses, either take or reject the parcel based on that. but there is risk involved. As well, the driver never wants to stick around for being the witness to the small domestic disaster that is a badly packaged audio item.

Many times we can have the financial middle group take the money back if the shipping goes wrong and leave the seller with the whole mess. But this does not work legally, even if the financial concern (PayPal)(and CC companies) take the money back. And they do so, all the time. Break the law, that is..and the contract, which involves the shipping and arrival, and acceptance of the item --is part of that equation.

The reality is that this is not the contract (taking money back on accepted parcels), and it can be proven in small claims court. look into it. What I mean is that if the buyer accepts the unopened parcel, then it is all on the buyer and this can be clarified in small claims court as the true reality. the small claims court just has to be made aware of this legal aspect of the dispute. As it is word against word.. and the reality, the base points of factual contracts ...at that point... will ’rule the situation’ ... and that --is the contract and the delivery methods.

So, in effect, PayPal and taking money back on a buyer’s word...is in fact illegal and against the given contract. Where it does not matter if the packaging was not adequate, as that is not part of the legal aspects of the money and who controls the money in the fulfillment of the contract.

but wait!! There’s more....

Original shipping containers designed for shipping, packaging obtained from the original manufacturer, is the required minimum - for insurance on packages to be in effect.

Probably made 7 or 8 claims on insurance when shipping in the last 20+ years and never once was the claim rejected because it was not the original manufacturer packaging. I did have to show proof of adequate packaging an in no case was there internal damage but no external damage. 

This is called ’FOB’ Shipping (from our base), 

FOB = Free on Board.  It must also include technically FOB origin or destination to indicate where the transfer point is in responsibility. Also technically, FOB Origin (or shipping point) responsibility does not transfer till it leaves the seller dock, but there can be confusion and it comes down to contractual terms.

IF the shipper is the seller, then it is the responsibility of the seller, until it is dropped off and signed for, by the buyer or final destination point. Until then, all claims, negotiations and the like - sit solely on the seller’s shoulders.

This is where shipping insurance contracts get you on the weasel word. If the receiver signs for it, that is taken as acceptance.  They must, at the time of arrival, indicate the damage.  I have written into our sales contract, and bolded it, that if the customer signs for a product and does not indicate exterior damage at the time of arrival, they are obsolving us of responsibility.  AS A SELLER YOU MUST COMMUNICATE THIS TO YOUR END CUSTOMER!

So, in effect, PayPal and taking money back on a buyer’s word...is in fact illegal and against the given contract. Where it does not matter if the packaging was not adequate, as that is not part of the legal aspects of the money and who controls the money in the fulfillment of the contract. 

If you are not a lawyer, then it is best NOT to provide this level of what is essentially legal advice and claim it as absolute fact.  IF you use Paypal, and this must be agreed by both parties, you are often engaging in a separate and what is potentially superseding contract.  I have not reviewed all the Paypal details of late, but some of them used to initiate what is in effect an escrow and would make Paypal the arbitrator.  Please don't take my (or Teo's) word for it. Do you own research.

Man, Teo makes me never want to ship an item again, lol.   Best to sell locally and in person if possible (in the police station parking lot?  And don’t give the buyer any personal info i.e. phone number?).  
I learned a lot about shipping from experiences I had last summer.  Im actually surprised that most of my transactions have gone smoothly.

+1. audio2design
Is there more?
Not waiting

I learned the hard way that Fed Ex doesn’t honor insurance claims for audio gear. It doesn’t matter how much proof you furnish or how many of their hoops you jump through. I would be surprised if UPS is not the same.